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To be or not to be a breeder

Discussion in 'Doberman Breeders' started by Dobs4ever, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    This question has been troubling me for a few days as several things have cropped up - First we had a breeding and out of 14 puppies born the dam and 10 puppies are now dead.

    Then we have people who buy from less than quality breeders and suddenly they want to breed so rush to join a breed club to try to elevate their status.

    Someone comes on and wants to show and suddenly buys an unregistered dog - I have to ask WHAT IS WRONG with people???

    But today took the cake - when someone comes on and has a fawn and wants to know if getting another fawn to breed to is a good idea, I had to shake my head.

    Now believe it or not I am for bringing in new people to our very special elite club of dog fanciers. But what exactly does it really mean?

    First and foremost PUREBRED dogs came about as someone who was very focused, dedicated and driven set about to perfect a dream of an ideal dog. If you do not care about this passion then please don't mess it up and just got get some guppies and breed away.

    Each purebred dog has a BREED CLUB whose sole purpose is to protect and preserve the STANDARD of their particular breed - In other words they want to PRESERVE the quality of their specific breed. One of the first things they do is WRITE a standard describing the ideal example of their breed.

    They then proceed to hold trials and shows to TEST their dogs against that standard to see if the dog measures up. They register their dogs with the approved registry of their country to preseve the history of each dog that contributed to the gene pool and what its strengths and weakness were so that they could breed toward improving on the weaknesses and keeping the good parts.

    If you have not attended a dog show and watched the breed you are interested in then you are not ready to BUY a dog yet let along breed something. If you have not read the standard for your chosen breed you are not ready to breed or buy. When people say OVERSIZED, SUPER SIZED or SUPERIOR SIZED it means it does not meet the standard. If they have never shown a dog then they can't sell you a SHOW prospect because they don't know what one is. STRUCTURE - form follows function Learn it. Learn what it means. Study it - watch it in action.

    Today with the internet, forums, AKC, dog shows, etc there is really no excuse for not having at least a clue about what the world of purebred dogs is about. It is about quality as opposed to the dogs in the street who mate at will. It is about striving to leave a legacy behind of dogs that speak to your passion for a breed. Otherwise there is no point in a registry, shows, trails - standard etc.

    If you think breeding can be done wiht out tremendous study, preparation, training, trialing, learning learning learning and then care about what you learn and proudce then breeding is not for you. We have been called stuck up and it is not that at all - it is about caring about what your bring to the table and leaving behind a hsitory rich in accomplishment,

    Breeding is an art forum it must have guidelines and purpose while preserving the right of good breeders to use what they have learned to strive to improve on their breeding. It is the excitement of seeing each litter progress and each breeding bring something of value to the table.

    PUREBRED dogs don't just breed at will - Each breeding is planned, each pedigree studied to see what strengths and weakness it might have. What you want to work to improve.

    The world of purebred dogs is an elite dedicated, focused group of people who have committed their lives - everyday, every moment, eating, drinking, sleeping breathing the dogs they love and admire. It is not something you learn over night. Good breeders find the dogs that enhance their interest and give them a purpose to pursue.

    That does not even touch on the struggle to screen homes and wait for the right home before placing a puppy. Taking puppies back when things don't work out. Always standing ready to step up to the plate and keeping meticulous records of breedings. It is what separates our dogs from the dog int he backyard that climbs the fence and breed anything and everything that is in heat.

    Purpose, Passion to preserve and protect a breed STANDARD.

    • Like Like x 17
  2. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I agree completely. Actually, this is also frustrating for people like me who are not interested in breeding, but who ARE interested in supporting a responsible breeder who is focused on healthy bloodlines. You really have to wade through a lot of chaff before finding what you are looking for.

    And don't get me started on the friends and family who don't understand why you're being so picky! :confused: Oi vey.
    • Like Like x 12
  3. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    If there is one thing you taught me in all the years I have known you, it is I don't want to breed. It is hard work and I don't think I could do it. I will just stick with buying from a responsible breeder and try to knock some sense in those that don't.
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Asteria

    Asteria Formerly Luca & Co Hot Topics Subscriber

    I have to add with Jabberwocky 's statement.... You really do have to wade through a lot of chaff theese days and its sad. I wish there was some law or ban on people who breed
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    Now lets tak about the cost of doing it right

    We will use an avg litter of 10 puppies - Start counting up all the money you will make AFTER:

    $1500.00 avg stud fee from health tested male
    (does not include price you paid to buy your quality bitch

    Tails and dews approximately $ 150.00
    Ear crops $3,000,00
    shots and worming $ 200.00
    food and special care items
    for healthy litter $ 850.00
    whelping bed $ 250.00
    Supplies for after care of ear
    crop $ 300.00
    Health testing
    Vwd $ 99.00
    OFA 120.00
    PDK4 51.00
    Full blood panel 350.00
    Echo 400.00 approx
    holter 400.00 approx

    I am now up to $7570.00 and have not shown, trained, fed or traveled with a dog. I have also not counted in advertising the litter etc.
    • Like Like x 5
  6. MicheleM

    MicheleM Active Member

    Dobs4ever, I agree with everything you have said today on this thread and the other thread. I also think it gives perspective to people that are looking for a puppy and might better understand why it's so important to do your homework before bringing a Doberman puppy into your lives. I too quoted the cost and expense of raising a litter of puppies. After a reputable breeder spends three years of their life getting to this point, their bitch might have one puppy, no puppies or a lot. A litter of puppies won't pay for all the costs of having them. Reputable breeders don't do it for the money! BYB are the only people making money! Sad but true so hopefully this educates a few people before they make that decision.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    So true Michele - I did not factor in the cost last year when I spend $3,000 to breed a bitch, have semen shipped for an AK, and all the progestrone test, plus ended up boarding her for a week so she would be there for my vet when she was ready and the breeding did not take. That means I had no puppies.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Marinegeekswife

    Marinegeekswife Hot Topics Subscriber

    Definitely not for the faint of heart, the busy, or the super poor, lol. You didn't even mention redoing some of the health testing over and over again through the dog's life, showing fees, training fees, equipment, emergency vet care, care for a dog you have to take back for a period as an adult, or the simple things like toys and collars and the other daily essentials. And that is just the money. What about the time for training, showing, traveling, going to vet appointments, caring for a litter, interviewing families, daily care of the adult dogs, etc? Or the emotions involved in failed breeding, sick dogs, returned dogs, turning down families, showing, trialing, health testing, and more.
    • Like Like x 7
  9. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    Wow Jess good job - Yes when you get a call and a family is getting divorced and you have to take the dog back right now because they are moving and neither can have a dog and of course they waited til the last minute to call you like I have nothing else to do. So you drop everything and scramble to rearrange and readjust for a new additon you had not planned on that particular day.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Marinegeekswife

    Marinegeekswife Hot Topics Subscriber

    I do pay attention, lol! ;) In all seriousness I have not ruled out the idea of becoming a breeder later in life, but I know enough now to know that I am certainly not ready yet.
    • Like Like x 3
  11. JatobaDoba

    JatobaDoba Notable member

    Definitely not for the faint of heart. Which is why I would like my kids to get exposed to the Doberman "scene". I would like to some day be a breeder, but only if one of my children gets that love for it as well. There is so much involved. So for now, we will start by watching and asking questions.
    Thanks to everyone for all the great information and stories that are on DCF!
    • Like Like x 5
  12. freem6

    freem6 Hot Topics Subscriber

    Breeding should not be a goal. To me, my goal is to train, and trial, and show, and to bring out the best in my dogs. Being a member of the breed clubs helps in that goal. Breeding may be planned if all health testing is done and my dog has proven themselves to be worthy to be bred.
    Even when I was heavily involved in showing and trailing my Aussies, in a span of 30 years I only bred 3 litters. And I only bred to get my next trialing dog.
    Even with health tested/titled dogs, I dont think breeding should be the goal!
    • Like Like x 5
  13. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    Freem6 now you have brought up a question I would like to ask - Knowing how hard it is to get established in any breed and certainly after 30 years in a breed why would you change direction and breeds??? I did not think you were that old so you must have started as a very young girl.
  14. freem6

    freem6 Hot Topics Subscriber

    I started getting paid to train and show dogs when I was 13 years old. That is when I met and fell in love with my first red Dobie. But I got really busy and involved with Aussies (a breed I love too!).
    I actually am not "changing" breeds. I still have two Aussies and I will always be involved in them. I Love to compete in herding especially! If I can train my Dobies to herd, I will!
    I just finally fulfilled a lifetime dream of owning Dobermans. And I wanted to expand on my training knowledge (protection sports). I needed a new challenge.
    I consider myself a trainer/competitor. Not a "breeder".
    • Like Like x 7
  15. Dragonborn

    Dragonborn Hot Topics Subscriber

    SO TRUE!
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Ingrid H

    Ingrid H Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    You can train your dobies to do anything you can teach them to do :) As I recall, Isis is with you on a breeding agreement. There is nothing wrong with that. As I see it, that sort of arrangement helps people like us to have top quality dogs and give the breeder a chance to see how the bitch develops and to see if she should be bred. We can't have Dobermans without any of them being bred.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. freem6

    freem6 Hot Topics Subscriber

    Actually it is a "performance" agreement. So I must title her (and of course health test her) before I can (or even would!) breed her. I am actually excellent at planning/researching/breeding a top quality litter, but I love competing, and a pregnant female and then a female with puppies interupts all that.
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Dobs4ever

    Dobs4ever Hot Topics Subscriber

    I have to ask what experience you had at 13 to get hired and paid to train and show??? That is very unusual and perhaps it would have been better had I said add a "new" breed after such a long time in one breed. I could not even imagine ever changing breeds - I am 100% dobermans and I can't imagine coming to a screeching halt and starting over. But if I did with all I have learned I would sure look for a top notch breeder to start with.

    So if Isis i s on a breeding agreement then how can you say you have no plans to breed for "many" years. Sorry I am just having a hard time following all of this.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Ingrid H

    Ingrid H Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I would expect that titling Isis would be a part of any future plans and that you could do it! I respect you very much as a trainer and dedicated dog enthusiast. The titles you've already put on your other dogs proves your skill and commitment.
    • Like Like x 2
  20. freem6

    freem6 Hot Topics Subscriber

    I have not agreed to breed her, I have agreed to title her. I dont have to breed her at all if I choose not to even after everything is accomplished.

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