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The Institute of Canine Biology The Doberman is in Serious Trouble

Discussion in 'Doberman Health and News Articles' started by Apollo's Dobermom, Mar 12, 2017.

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  1. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    It is heart wrenching... I truly believe this: Genetic introgressions <cross-breeding> with similar dogs may be required, but such outcrossing must be based on sound genetic knowledge and careful monitoring of new diversity to see that it is not lost by backcrossing or contained to only a fraction of the breed."
     
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  2. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    The only hope for this breed is the initiation of a sound, comprehensive cross-breeding program, under the guidance of population geneticists, that will introduce new genetic diversity into the breed. The longer it takes to begin genetic rescue, the more difficult it will be and the less likely it is to be successful.

    AGREE AGREE AGREE
     
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  3. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I found out that Oji's breeder has started using a DNA test that supposedly can indicate how similar two dogs are to each other. An example of the a result they shared with me was surprising – that two particular littermates were farther apart than them and a somewhat more distant relative.

    I can try to look up the name what they are using.
     
  4. Gelcoater

    Gelcoater Expert ThreadCrapper $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    From the article

    DCM is fatal. The heart fails, sometimes in the absence of any symptoms of a problem, and the dog simply drops dead - in the middle of a game of fetch, during a run on an agility course, or while the family is away during the day at work and school. Most dogs die in their prime and even younger.

    :(

    I think a good start would be the breeders cut the snobbery towards one another and start crossing lines that won't be crossed with things the way they are now.
    Sure there will always be the ignorant breeder just throwing two dogs together because theyre male and female but before we start out breeding with blood of some other breed how about working together rather than the snarky ways of today and years gone by?
     
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  5. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    The thought of introducing a different breed to the Doberman's lines is undesirable. Maybe I'm idealistic and naive.
     
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  6. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    What I have seen a lot of is breeders having their own bitch and breeding her to various sires who are up for stud or have semen available. Is this not crossing lines pretty well?
     
  7. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    Undesirable...yes....inevitable for the continuation of the breed... very likely.
     
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  8. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Then one wonders: Who will do this? Seems it would have to be extremely carefully done, or you'll have everyone starting to mix in the chosen breed. I guess it could be attempted to be controlled via registration?
     
  9. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

  10. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I've read this :(
     
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  11. Regalis

    Regalis Notable member

    I could actually see how mixing outside breeds in could work. Ideal? No. But, neither is the breed dying out, quite literally. But it would require extreme dedication and knowledge to work.

    That said - at times I'm glad Kaizer is mixed, simply because it does, in theory, lessen his risk of some issues. However I could see serious issues arising from numerous mixes of his sort appearing on the market, mostly due to the inconsistency in size and temperament. It's dangerous enough when someone has an out of control doberman, but it would be that much more dangerous to have an out of control dog that acts like a doberman, but with double the size.
     
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  12. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    It would take someone with a lot of time and A LOT of Money...more of a team really. I would think a geneticist would be invaluable. As well as finding a VERY knowledgeable breeder of dobermans that was willing to overlook the utter backlash that is inevitable with this kind of venture. Who is brave enough to save our beloved breed...:(
     
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  13. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Just to throw into the mix. Working with a Dobe rescue. I have seen some of these Dobes that were not from great breeders have long lives of over 10yrs.
     
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  14. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    The Dalmatian had to do and is doing something similar for their urinary stone issues in the breed. No dalmatian is free of the gene that carries the disease so they have to outcross to pointers. You can't tell the difference between a pure Dalmatian and one that has pointer in its pedigree. You can read the history of it here...its quite interesting.
    http://www.luadalmatians.com/History.html

     
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  15. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Oh man. It's just such a sensitive thing. We all want to believe that our purebred Doberman Pinschers, and Dobermann Pinschers are pure. Pure as the driving snow. That's what it's all about – we own a pure specimen of the breed we so admire.

    I don't know about you, but the thought of adding in some foreign breed repulses me to a certain degree.

    But, again, I may be idealistic and naive.
     
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  16. Drogon

    Drogon Hot Topics Subscriber

    I just received Drogon's test kit for DCM1 & 2. Even if you have never considered breeding your Dobe, I think everyone should have theirs tested. If it comes up clear/clear - consider breeding.
    One of the guys at training has a male IPO3 Dobe who is clear / clear. I think he imported him from Belgium. I believe there must be enough clear clear Dobes to keep the breed 'pure' if there's a coordinated effort to breed out the DCM genes.
     
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  17. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    So, what think you all? Which breed(s) should be introduced?

    What about German Pinscher? (but I don't want to add in smaller size).

    The Manchester Terrier is in the Dobe's makeup. How about this? (again, small size)

    What about Beauceron?

    Really, (not to make your head swell, @Regalis ) but what about adding in a small amount of Rottweiler?
     
  18. Regalis

    Regalis Notable member

    I get it, but by the same token you have to remember that Dobies are not a particularly old breed and one that is made up of various other breeds. I think so long as they stick to breeds that are known/highly believed to be a part of making the doberman in the beginning, it's ok. Especially if it means stabilizing and protecting our beloved breed of goobers.
     
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  19. Regalis

    Regalis Notable member

    I think adding in SMALL amounts of Rott would be ok. Granted, I'm biased and think my boy is great. But I also realize I likely just got very lucky with him turning out the way he has thus far. But on the flip of that, seeing as though he is already the size of an adult dobie at 8 months, I can really see how his size could be, well, bad. He's for all intents and purposes a dobie on steroids. I cringe to think of where his litter mates ended up, Especially since it was 12 males and one female.
     

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