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Smart Wood Hills

Ataro

Notable member
I want to warn anyone who is thinking of dealing with this Russian kennel, to go to Moscow and visit them to make sure they don't get ripped off. I have had no end of trouble with this breeder (from the hassle of actually getting the puppy with them expecting me to cross international borders in the middle of the night without even at least one day's notice, to the puppy itself) and I would not recommend them.

I recently bought a show prospect puppy from these people and the puppy is an absolute basket case with zero confidence and stability - it is unable to adjust to normal everyday life situations. I have had this puppy for 8 days and have tried to slowly introduce it to new people and environments, but it just shuts down and starts shivering or peeing at the slightest thing such as walking more than 50m/150ft away from the house. There has been absolutely no improvement since the day it arrived.

These breeders will lie through their teeth to make a profit and not stand by their word should something go wrong. This is in addition to their questionable practices such as raising the puppies in outdoor kennels with little to no socialization.

1. The breeder first told me that they never saw any problems with the puppy before. In fact, their description of her temperament was "confident and self-assured, but not dominant", but had I known otherwise, I would not have put down the deposit.

2. Then they admitted that she peed whenever she encountered something new, but that they thought it wasn't really a problem.

3. Then they said that some puppies not sold until they are 5 months old living in kennels can develop these sorts of behavioural issues (the puppy is 3 months old)

4. Now they are calling me a liar and saying that they have never seen temperament problems in any of the 500+ dogs they've bred and insinuated that I am not taking care of the puppy properly.

5. They do not want to refund the price I paid or even contribute to the costs of shipping the puppy back despite the fact that they were outright lied about the puppy's temperament even though I specifically asked about it before paying a deposit, because it was a deal maker/breaker for me (now the breeder asks why he should care about what I requested in regards to temperament?!). They started making up all these new fees that they would have to deduct from the original price, such as puppy keeping fees and food which were not mentioned at all, previously. And of course, the refund was only to be "discussed" after I've sent the puppy.

6. They are blaming me for a potential loss of profit (which is their reason for not wanting the puppy back), trying to make it out as though I ordered them to keep a puppy natural (not true - the puppy was 3 weeks old and still had a tail when I contacted them) and as such it will be impossible to sell her - yet another lie, as they kept two natural puppies, one of which was for a friend of theirs in Moscow to show in Western Europe. Not to mention that they have an all-natural Dobe themselves as do many other Russians, breeders or not.

7. In their last email, they basically told me I can do what I want with the puppy because it is not their problem since I've bought her outright with a full pedigree (and sending her back would only eat into their profits, according to them).

The truth is simple: they really just don't care about anything but money. There are plenty of better breeders than these people who you can seek out.
 
***PS: can one of the mods please move this to the "buyer beware" section, I forgot to do that when I created the thread.
 
Oh Ataro, I am so sorry you are having issues. This must be devastating to you. Hope everything works out for the best for both you and Nava.
 
I moved it for you.

Such a shame, all the problems of you puppy search, returning the first one, the problems with the delivery of this one and now you have a problem with this one!! ? Wow. I don't know what to say. Since they won't take her back, I hope you can work with her and improve things. She's young. I'm sure good handling will bring her around. Give her time.
 
I moved it for you.

Such a shame, all the problems of you puppy search, returning the first one, the problems with the delivery of this one and now you have a problem with this one!! ? Wow. I don't know what to say. Since they won't take her back, I hope you can work with her and improve things. She's young. I'm sure good handling will bring her around. Give her time.

Thanks for moving it, and I have been trying to work on things but there is absolutely no improvement. This puppy is unsuitable for a busy lifestyle, and one which involves children even just as visitors. I am going to rehome her, and try to find a suitable place where there are no children (she gets snappy when she is stressed out, and she gets stressed out very easily) and preferably located somewhere rural or semi-rural.

If she can't even adapt to a quiet street (usually maximum of 3 people walking during day time hours) within a week, there is no way that she is going to be able to cope with travelling around yearly (which is my lifestyle and one of the reasons I need a stable, confident dog) and probably not even showing, since she already sees 3 people as a crowd and intimidating. She also freezes and shuts down when encountering strange dogs any closer than from across the street (regardless of whether or not they are friendly). Right now she is basically living in "hell" and is constantly stressed out and nervous whenever she leaves the house even just to go to the bathroom. She is so anxious that she licks herself obsessively and freaks out at inanimate objects.
 
It's such a shame they would rather use the contract primarily to shield themselves, and make a buck rather than make the situation right & own their failure. Putting their profit motive ahead of a puppy's well-being and at a buyer's expense, that's definitely not reputable at all.

Poor Nava, hopefully you're able to find a good home for her.
 
It's one thing to go back on a contract, but it's another entirely to just lie about what you are selling. They were accusing me of not looking after the puppy properly and thereby causing her weird behaviour, and yet when she came to me she had loose stools (needed deworming) and a staph infection on her face.
 
It's one thing to go back on a contract, but it's another entirely to just lie about what you are selling. They were accusing me of not looking after the puppy properly and thereby causing her weird behaviour, and yet when she came to me she had loose stools (needed deworming) and a staph infection on her face.

That sounds like outright fraud, they have to had known full well exactly what was wrong and that it was all their fault. If not being properly cared-for was the cause of Nava's neurotic behavior, it would've been how they took care of her in the 3 months she was under their care, not a matter of days in yours.
 
Ataro,I feel bad for your situation.
Sounds like they are a bit crooked.That said,and I am not trying to underscore anything you have said here but....do you honestly think 8 days is enough time for a puppy 3 months old to adjust to a total world change? Everything this pup has known is gone,suffered transport,and now is in a strange land witha strange lady,and a strange dog too.
IMO,8 days is not enough time for
A...the pup to gain trust in you
B...for there to be any real time for bonding

We all know this can be a sensitive breed,you should give her some time to adjust.None of the actions you describe are things that cant be worked out through with training,trust and socialization.Notice that word I underlined?That's what puppies are,a work in progress.
On the pee'ing issue,have you had her checked for UTI?
 
Ataro,I feel bad for your situation.
Sounds like they are a bit crooked.That said,and I am not trying to underscore anything you have said here but....do you honestly think 8 days is enough time for a puppy 3 months old to adjust to a total world change? Everything this pup has known is gone,suffered transport,and now is in a strange land witha strange lady,and a strange dog too.
IMO,8 days is not enough time for
A...the pup to gain trust in you
B...for there to be any real time for bonding

We all know this can be a sensitive breed,you should give her some time to adjust.None of the actions you describe are things that cant be worked out through with training,trust and socialization.Notice that word I underlined?That's what puppies are,a work in progress.
On the pee'ing issue,have you had her checked for UTI?

Yes, I do think that a puppy should be able to walk further than 150ft from the house without completely shutting down, whining and shivering with its tail between its legs and attempting to run away. This is not normal behaviour from a healthy, happy puppy (and as you know, this is not the first, second or even third puppy I have had), especially when it is taken out 5x a day, every day. We are not talking about a rescued adult dog that has been abused for years, we are talking about a puppy that at this age has hardly had any bad experiences and should be showing confidence and curiousity.

I am also sure she doesn't have a UTI - she doesn't leak or pee inappropriately (we are talking full on peeing herself in fright right on cue here, not dribbling or peeing infrequently) on the days she doesn't meet anyone new.

- Every puppy cries when left alone in a crate, but it is not exactly common for it to pee/poop the minute it is put in there and freak out, screaming for hours.
- It is not normal for a puppy (or dog, for that matter) to hate leaving the house and going outside. This puppy runs frantically trying to get back in, and has to be coaxed out of the house, because she's too afraid to go out (I live on a very quiet street, remember).
- It is normal for a puppy to be cautious with new things, but this puppy runs away whenever she sees new people/things/places and pees if there is nowhere to run and hide.
- A three month old snapping and growling at Ashra because she easily gets stressed out (not talking about rough play here, I make Ashra lie down) does not indicate a normal threshold for coping with stress or change.
- She freaks out so much about the smallest things like walking 50ft further than the street, that she remains too afraid for the rest of the night to do her business, even on familiar grounds.
- It is not normal at all for a puppy to have zero curiousity of its surroundings, other people, dogs etc.

And sorry, but I did not pick her up off the side of the road in a terrible state. We are talking about a puppy from a "reputable" breeder that I paid a large sum of money for, which is supposed to be a confident show prospect. This puppy cannot even walk normally on a quiet street in the suburbs. This is not acceptable behaviour, this is what is known as poor temperament and definitely not something I would have paid that amount of money for had I known. "Sensitive" does not mean basket case, if it were just one or two issues like separation anxiety or submissiving peeing (it's not submissive peeing, by the way), that would be workable. It pains me to say it, but this puppy is even less stable and confident than my first Dobe that was a fear biter which I had to put down. Any spooky dog like this one, when pushed too far, has the potential to bite.

A breeder who sells a puppy of this temperament (who breeds dogs with this temperament, especially), while claiming that their dogs have strong temperaments and that they are sending me a confident puppy is nothing but full of shit in my opinion. This puppy cannot be around children, or noisy areas, or anything that you normally wouldn't think twice about, because it shuts down and freaks out especially when cornered. You call that normal? If that is "normal", then maybe this breed is already doomed.
 
I feel so bad for you right now. You have been through so much. Whatever is the end result I hope its in the best interest for the puppy.
 
And sorry, but I did not pick her up off the side of the road in a terrible state. We are talking about a puppy from a "reputable" breeder that I paid a large sum of money for, which is supposed to be a confident show prospect. This puppy cannot even walk normally on a quiet street in the suburbs. This is not acceptable behaviour, this is what is known as poor temperament and definitely not something I would have paid that amount of money for had I known. "Sensitive" does not mean basket case, if it were just one or two issues like separation anxiety or submissiving peeing (it's not submissive peeing, by the way), that would be workable. It pains me to say it, but this puppy is even less stable and confident than my first Dobe that was a fear biter which I had to put down. Any spooky dog like this one, when pushed too far, has the potential to bite.

A breeder who sells a puppy of this temperament (who breeds dogs with this temperament, especially), while claiming that their dogs have strong temperaments and that they are sending me a confident puppy is nothing but full of shit in my opinion. This puppy cannot be around children, or noisy areas, or anything that you normally wouldn't think twice about, because it shuts down and freaks out especially when cornered. You call that normal? If that is "normal", then maybe this breed is already doomed.
Side of the road??Yeah I got that.I know you're angry,but there's no need to be snarkey with me.Should I have used a shitload of smiley faces on my previous post to denote I wasn't being a smart ass,and just giving a point of view?

Maybe you should post some video of this pup.Your words will only go so far,actually seeing what you are trying to describe may help?
Good luck to you.
The open invitation in that other thread to American Thanksgiving stands;):)
 
Oh man... You have to be shitting us! There's no way a nice person like you can have so much bad luck with buying a puppy! Are you seriously going to return this puppy? It sounds like the puppy is messed up, but how many times can you go through this before just accepting what you bought? One of the benefits of buying from a responsible breeder is a money back guarantee, but holy shit! Why don't you just leave Germany and move in with me? Mexico and Germany seem to suck. Maine is awesome except for being isolated.
 
Ataro - You did the research - you spoke to the breeders - you made choices. While I agree the puppy should be more confident and not shake and pee. I know puppies all react differently to new things especailly if they were not worked or socialized by the breeder.

Something seems wrong to me. For the puppy to be that scared as you say then that is not the puppy pictured in the phots sent to you. From those pictures they worked with the puppies and stacked them. This would be a sign of some stability and confidence.

I know you are overly concerned and convinced that all Doberman have gone to heck in a hand basket but I tell you it is not so from what I see here. For the most part I see confident puppies at least on a minimum level. Not all would work but that does not mean that they could not function very well in a good family situation.

If due to your situation you are foreced or rushed to get her out to potty because then you have to take the second one out it could be you have been the problem and then when she reacted you become more convince she was not right and that only aggravated the problem with her. There just something that does not fit with this pictures based on the photos. First day you said she played well with Ashra but if Ashra scared her than that is not her fault and it could be it compounded.

Just because she does not pee all the time does not mean she still could not have a UTI. I would have her checked.

I do not feel it does any good for you to continueally bash this breed and it is becoming an old story. According to you there are no good dogs, breeders, judges or places to live. What does that leave you??? What are your options??? What needs to change to make something work??? I am just saying it can't always be everyone else.
 
Side of the road??Yeah I got that.I know you're angry,but there's no need to be snarkey with me.Should I have used a shitload of smiley faces on my previous post to denote I wasn't being a smart ass,and just giving a point of view?

Maybe you should post some video of this pup.Your words will only go so far,actually seeing what you are trying to describe may help?
Good luck to you.
The open invitation in that other thread to American Thanksgiving stands;):)

It is hard to read tone over the Internet, it did sound like you were implying what I was saying was unbelievable. What is the point of making videos? I have decided to rehome the puppy, there is no ifs or but about that. Furthermore, this thread is about the breeder.
 
Oh man... You have to be shitting us! There's no way a nice person like you can have so much bad luck with buying a puppy! Are you seriously going to return this puppy? It sounds like the puppy is messed up, but how many times can you go through this before just accepting what you bought? One of the benefits of buying from a responsible breeder is a money back guarantee, but holy shit! Why don't you just leave Germany and move in with me? Mexico and Germany seem to suck. Maine is awesome except for being isolated.

Honestly, the way the breeder has been sounding, I don't want to return the puppy to them. They really don't care where it goes or what happens to it, and so I would rather take the matter into my own hands. I had hoped this would have been the last time I ever went through this crap, but apparently not. Doesn't seem like my lucky year at all.
 
Ataro - You did the research - you spoke to the breeders - you made choices. While I agree the puppy should be more confident and not shake and pee. I know puppies all react differently to new things especailly if they were not worked or socialized by the breeder.

Something seems wrong to me. For the puppy to be that scared as you say then that is not the puppy pictured in the phots sent to you. From those pictures they worked with the puppies and stacked them. This would be a sign of some stability and confidence.

I know you are overly concerned and convinced that all Doberman have gone to heck in a hand basket but I tell you it is not so from what I see here. For the most part I see confident puppies at least on a minimum level. Not all would work but that does not mean that they could not function very well in a good family situation.

If due to your situation you are foreced or rushed to get her out to potty because then you have to take the second one out it could be you have been the problem and then when she reacted you become more convince she was not right and that only aggravated the problem with her. There just something that does not fit with this pictures based on the photos. First day you said she played well with Ashra but if Ashra scared her than that is not her fault and it could be it compounded.

Just because she does not pee all the time does not mean she still could not have a UTI. I would have her checked.

I do not feel it does any good for you to continueally bash this breed and it is becoming an old story. According to you there are no good dogs, breeders, judges or places to live. What does that leave you??? What are your options??? What needs to change to make something work??? I am just saying it can't always be everyone else.


Rushed to take her out to do her business? Re-read my story and what I have said properly. And no, she is not afraid of Ashra, she gets stressed out. Even the presence of things like miniature trash cans stress her out. I don't believe stacking pictures are a good indicator of temperament, unless they also make pictures of the puppies playing and walking around the rest of the house and garden. The puppies could have gotten used to just being in that room of the house plus their kennels and grown confident in their surroundings.

The breeders keep their puppies in kennels outside and do not socialize them, that is a fact they admitted to themselves. Whether or not they sent me the puppy they took pictures of or were describing, I shall never know. They've already lied about temperament, it wouldn't be a far push of the imagination to think they might have cheated me on something else - they produce 100s of puppies, as they said. Now they've run off with the cash and do not care what happens to the puppy, "do what you want with the puppy" does not sound very caring or responsible to me.

Instead of making the story always about your plight for breeders, you might want to re-read the experience I had with these crooks and smell the flowers. I said nowhere that breeders in general were bad, in fact at the end of my post I said it would be best to go for another breeder. But if you think that these breeders are what can be considered "good" or "reputable", then you are driving the breed to "heck in a hand basket" yourself.

Can't always be everyone else? What kind of nasty accusative statement is that? You are continually looking for ways to pick at my posts and insult me, I have no idea what the reason for your personal vendetta is and quite frankly, I don't care at this point. You know exactly what happened with the first puppy: some "mysterious" illness that the breeder wouldn't disclose, which had me bringing the pup to the E-vet on the second day. Razad had no temperament problems whatsoever, she was physically sick with what is presumed to be parvo (again, we shall never know, but it seems logical) and you were one of the many who recommended sending her back. Now you are saying I am to blame for her being sick? I suppose I slipped the virus into her food or something, to make for a better story :confused2:.

Whatever, this past month it seems like it is becoming impossible for you to say anything constructive without being offensive. Welcome to the ignore list, have a nice life.
 
I have no words... too bad. Perhaps buying a puppy online is not the best option.
I bought Asha from a great breeder. She is well bred dog in every aspect but when I met her... the only thought I had "Geezzz... she is not my dog".
She is my shadow now... and I love her. It took time and devotion to make her to be "my dog".

When I met Gino I knew he was my boy and he is the best dog I have ever owned... for me :)

When you find a place for poor Nava.... I wish you luck to find and meet your next puppy before you buy.
 

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