Shaped Hold for Retrieve for AKC or IGP

Ravenbird

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We've been discussing training for AKC (or IGP) dumbbell retrieve on AJ's CDX thread. I didn't want to take away from @obbanner's great training job and congrats so thought I'd start a new thread & for thoughts on different methods. I'm a paying subscriber to Dave Kroyer and he has videos describing both a forced hold and a shaped hold for achieving a quiet, non-chompy hold and retrieve to front. I watched them both and the shaped method sounded promising for Ashas personality as I've taught her many things with click & food. I generally use part of her daily ration since I use this method a lot, and if I need more motivation I mix tasty treats in the food, and the most motivation of all is a ball or tug. For whatever reason this holding plastic is something that's been really hard to teach, she has a lack-luster interest and drops it frequently and isn't holding it tightly. It's been hard to use the ball for a reward as she can get overly amped up, but with lots of patience she has learned that STILLNESS is what makes the ball happen. Here are 4 short video clips of training yesterday, food rewards, holding it well, holding it sloppy, a little chewy sometimes, dropping it, changing to ball reward, testing self-control, ending with a couple of steps to "come fronts". She'd previously dropped the PVC at my voice saying front, then at one step movement like she couldn't do 2 things at once. I was really happy to see the her #4 where she stepped up to the front. This is a long process with zero corrections (hard for me & my personality), but I'm going to stick with it for a while longer. Comments & questions & discussion welcome!

1. Note a rather indifferent attitude on taking & holding


2. Eager to hold at front position, drops it on request to walk with it


3. Ball, self-control, big rewards for being still. Bonus: Cat photo-bomb @:15 (he'd been sitting on the table by the Igloo)


4. Yay! Moving into the come-front with a hold!

 
Beautiful! I love the fronts. She does them perfectly! Asha is a beautiful dog.
Thank you so much, she loves a recall, runs a bit too fast, slammed into me on our BH. I'll take the points rather than slow down that enthusiasm. She can still be crooked, so we're working on that too.

Great videos, I love seeing progression videos! Thank you!
Hopefully there will be some real progression soon! But to get her mojo back, I guess I have to use the ball. Did you see Ritzar go under her belly at :15 in the 3rd video? I cracked up when I saw that when I replayed it. :rofl:
 
Wow impressive! I love your idea for the carpenters apron for a treat pouch too.
Did you see Ritzar go under her belly at :15 in the 3rd video? I cracked up when I saw that when I replayed it.
I had to go back and look but wow. LOL
 
Wow impressive! I love your idea for the carpenters apron for a treat pouch too.
Ha, not my idea, but I saw someone else using the apron for treats (and the pocket is large enough for a ball!) and then I saw one at the thrift store for $1, so it was a no-brainer. SO much cooler than a training vest in the summer! I don't care if it's a "signal" of treats/training/ball, or that she won't work if I don't have it on. It doesn't seem to matter now that we've gotten over basics.

Yeah, that cat! He's always somewhere, but I laughed out loud when I saw him dash under Ashas belly. Never noticed when we were training.
 
UPDATE! Here's yesterday - about 2 weeks since the last videos. Great progress, I'm not giving up!!! Now we are adding picking it up to come front. Asha won't pick it up from the ground, so I put it on my feet. But I've got about 90% pick up & bring front. Then I'll have to stop using my feet & add distance, THEN I get to do the whole series over from scratch using a real dumbbell! I wish I'd written down when I started this, but it's been about 8 weeks. I'm finally seeing my patience paying off!

 
Thats so awesome! I love the idea to have her take from the side then turn your body to help her get the idea of bringing it front without making her do too much, then gradually assisting her less. Great job!
 
UPDATE! Here's yesterday - about 2 weeks since the last videos. Great progress, I'm not giving up!!! Now we are adding picking it up to come front. Asha won't pick it up from the ground, so I put it on my feet. But I've got about 90% pick up & bring front. Then I'll have to stop using my feet & add distance, THEN I get to do the whole series over from scratch using a real dumbbell! I wish I'd written down when I started this, but it's been about 8 weeks. I'm finally seeing my patience paying off!

Nice
 
Thats so awesome! I love the idea to have her take from the side then turn your body to help her get the idea of bringing it front without making her do too much, then gradually assisting her less. Great job!
We do a thing called dumbbell game.
Place the dumbbell on the ground.
Play tug with a ball or tug moving a few feet away.
Out the toy, then say bring (or what ever your retrieve command is)
Keep the toy in front high enough to be above their head when they bring the dumbbell to front.
Once in front with the dumbbell immediately mark when the grip is calm, let the dumbbell drop as they take the reward. Play and move away from the dumbbell to repeat. While playing this game you move farther away each time building distance and speed. This makes dumbbell fun and adds drive and speed to the exercise.
 
We do a thing called dumbbell game.
Place the dumbbell on the ground.
Play tug with a ball or tug moving a few feet away.
Out the toy, then say bring (or what ever your retrieve command is)
Keep the toy in front high enough to be above their head when they bring the dumbbell to front.
Once in front with the dumbbell immediately mark when the grip is calm, let the dumbbell drop as they take the reward. Play and move away from the dumbbell to repeat. While playing this game you move farther away each time building distance and speed. This makes dumbbell fun and adds drive and speed to the exercise.
Brilliant game!!!

I've never seen Asha so disinterested in learning a new thing as this PVC pipe, but the ball definitely gets her interest up. Once we move to the dumbbell I will def try this game! Thanks!

@Doberman Gang - is there any site you know of that sells used IGP equipment?
 
We've been discussing training for AKC (or IGP) dumbbell retrieve on AJ's CDX thread. I didn't want to take away from @obbanner's great training job and congrats so thought I'd start a new thread & for thoughts on different methods. I'm a paying subscriber to Dave Kroyer and he has videos describing both a forced hold and a shaped hold for achieving a quiet, non-chompy hold and retrieve to front. I watched them both and the shaped method sounded promising for Ashas personality as I've taught her many things with click & food. I generally use part of her daily ration since I use this method a lot, and if I need more motivation I mix tasty treats in the food, and the most motivation of all is a ball or tug. For whatever reason this holding plastic is something that's been really hard to teach, she has a lack-luster interest and drops it frequently and isn't holding it tightly. It's been hard to use the ball for a reward as she can get overly amped up, but with lots of patience she has learned that STILLNESS is what makes the ball happen. Here are 4 short video clips of training yesterday, food rewards, holding it well, holding it sloppy, a little chewy sometimes, dropping it, changing to ball reward, testing self-control, ending with a couple of steps to "come fronts". She'd previously dropped the PVC at my voice saying front, then at one step movement like she couldn't do 2 things at once. I was really happy to see the her #4 where she stepped up to the front. This is a long process with zero corrections (hard for me & my personality), but I'm going to stick with it for a while longer. Comments & questions & discussion welcome!

1. Note a rather indifferent attitude on taking & holding


2. Eager to hold at front position, drops it on request to walk with it


3. Ball, self-control, big rewards for being still. Bonus: Cat photo-bomb @:15 (he'd been sitting on the table by the Igloo)


4. Yay! Moving into the come-front with a hold!


Awesome job! :thumbsup:

Working on dumbbells with Arson. He has no issues with speed going out and bringing them to front. Holds it with no mouthing until he gets to me and then does mouthing or sometimes a loose grip.
The loose grip I will reach down and rotate the dumbbell a little.
Will try and do some things in your videos.

Tks
 
Will try and do some things in your videos
I know nothing, just following DK's videos & advice. Big takeaway is being precise with the clicker. Many times just as I click my dog has chomped. I try so hard to get her perfectly still to click and end up still missing the mark. Clicking has to mark the perfect behavior, so I worry when it doesn't. But really, just when I was about to go back and review the forced hold videos again, everything started coming together.
 
Awesome job! :thumbsup:

Working on dumbbells with Arson. He has no issues with speed going out and bringing them to front. Holds it with no mouthing until he gets to me and then does mouthing or sometimes a loose grip.
The loose grip I will reach down and rotate the dumbbell a little.
Will try and do some things in your videos.

Tks
Are you outing the dumbbell every time or marking a calm grip and rewarding. Dogs will start anticipating the out command it create chewing in the front. Rewarding a calm grip before the out will eliminate this and teach to get the reward tge must hold the dumbbell calm. Only rewarding after the out becomes rewarding the out not the hold, dog gets anxious waiting for the out command to get the reward and then start chewing.
 
Are you outing the dumbbell every time or marking a calm grip and rewarding. Dogs will start anticipating the out command it create chewing in the front. Rewarding a calm grip before the out will eliminate this and teach to get the reward tge must hold the dumbbell calm. Only rewarding after the out becomes rewarding the out not the hold, dog gets anxious waiting for the out command to get the reward and then start chewing.

I tell him to hold and wait until he has a calm grip then reward it. The loose grip I try and turn the dumbbell a little so he bites down on it.
This all takes a lot of time. :pullhair:

He likes the dumbbell he will carry it around with no mouthing.
 
Rewarding a calm grip before the out will eliminate this and teach to get the reward tge must hold the dumbbell calm
So that's what I'm doing with the ball on Ashas head, and I even said it: being STILL is what gets the ball. I don't even know what I'm doing, but I'm following good directions. :rofl:
This all takes a lot of time. :pullhair:
I can tell you, this has been the longest, most drawn out exercise I've ever done. But the payoff is coming. Slow & steady wins the race.

You guys are welcome to add your videos here. It's not about me & my dog, it's just ways & examples (complete with mistakes!) to train the dumbbell retrieve to front. The more the merrier!
 
Here's where we are today. Bringing to front, but still a sloppy hold (loose enough sometimes that it just falls out), a bit chewy and sometimes crooked fronts. Progress, but far from the goals!

 
UPDATE! It can be done! After we got to where Asha would retrieve the PVC pipe, I started the whole series of steps with a lightweight AKC type wood dumbbell. Touch it, click/food. Hold it, click/food. Pick it up, click/food. Bring it, click/food. Then I moved to the IGP1 size dumbbell - about 1 1/2 pounds. Rinse & repeat. Didn't take as long, and so here we are 4 - 5 months down the road. Still some chomping, still some crooked sits. I have two videos, one showing the actual retrieve, then I realized you couldn't see the front, so I took another short video of the side view. (((The LEAKING persists....:facepalm: )))

I welcome any suggestions!

view of retrieve:


side view of front w/dumbbell:

 
Beautiful progress! She's having way too much fun with it haha. :D
 
Beautiful progress! She's having way too much fun with it haha
Finally. It was pure drudgery for her with the plastic pipe. Asha has been barking at me since I got her, and had read that especially in IGP you want your dogs to push you. No problem there. It's always "hurry up, I'm waiting, I can't wait much longer, you're too slow!" The girl has no patience. :rofl: :paw:
 

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