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Severe Crate Rage

Discussion in 'Training & Behavior' started by ArdynBane, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. ArdynBane

    ArdynBane Jr Member

    As some of you already know, Bane had serious crating issues.

    I finally got a Zinger crate that he hasn't escaped yet, which is super amazing. Now I seem to have a new problem: He crate rages so severely he has CHIPPED THREE TEETH! One being his lower canine!

    I got the Zinger crate a month ago, and this is ongoing, so it isn't like I can "let him tough it out" anymore. He is destroying his teeth!!!

    He is well exercised prior to crating, he has things to do in crate while I am gone. The tough part is, his rage is sporadic. Some days he will rage so intensely, I will come home to pools of saliva at the bottom of his crate. He isn't in his crate for more than 4.5 hours max.

    I noticed today he chipped his lower canine which CANNOT happen, get worse, or happen again.

    It's been tough because he seems to know when I am around versus gone for work for me to correct him, but it's also sporadic so sometimes he rages, sometimes he doesn't.

    Any ideas? I was thinking maybe spraying some bitter apple where he rages, but not sure if that would work since he seems to grab it with his front teeth and canines to rage... Not sure if he'd even taste it to be deterred.
    • Empathetic Empathetic x 5
  2. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Oh wow! I see in another current thread you share that Bane is Euro and 1/2 Confo and 1/2 Working lines. I must say that even given my Oji's separation anxiety, his full Working lines, and his loathe for being crated, he has never been a true hardcore escape artist. I count our blessings!

    Have you considered a nice safe muzzle for him? I see you have sprung for an expensive crate, so perhaps you are able to spring for a top quality leather basket muzzle? It would have to be one that will let him breath maximally so that as he gets all worked up in the crate his muzzle won't leave him short on air. I think quality basket muzzles could fit this bill, as they are used in active situations of physical exertion as the dog is doing things like going after a helper.

    You might ask some of your IPO club people?

    I agree that you have to protect his teeth in this situation.

    When I boarded Oji during a trip my wife and I took to look into a job and relocation opportunity, Oji was left to yank at chain link fencing for extended periods of time and he wore grooves into the front of his canines and the back of the incisors next to them. :thumbdown:
    • Like Like x 2
  3. ArdynBane

    ArdynBane Jr Member

    I have tried muzzling him for months prior to getting this crate. He has destroyed 4 crates, both plastic and metal, and I really had to save up and splurge for the Zinger. He is too immature to be left unattended still, and he needs to be crate trained for trials.

    He escapes all muzzles I have tried. I seriously have no idea how he does it. I have tried the ones that keep his mouth shut and metal basket ones. No matter how tight or firm I make it, he still somehow escapes it... Seriously driving me insane.

    My club members say this is a tough situation as it's sporadic, so it isn't like I can predict when he will do it for me to correct him. :(
    • Wow x 1
  4. Doberman Gang

    Doberman Gang Hot Topics Subscriber

    Do you crate when you are home? So you can correct him when he acts out. How old when you started crating?
  5. ArdynBane

    ArdynBane Jr Member

    Yes, he is crated when I am home. He sleeps in his crate and he is also crated when I eat. He is fine when I am home, no whining or raging.

    The raging is sporadic, so sometimes he does it, sometimes he doesn't. He doesn't do it right away when I leave either, so it's been hard to catch him. Doesn't always do it, hit or miss.

    He had severe crate anxiety since I got him at 3 months. He has destroyed 4 crates in the 8 months I've had him. Finally got a Zinger so he can't escape. At first I thought he would have to rage it out and learn eventually he can't get out, but it has been a month and he is crated very consistently to a schedule, but now his teeth are chipping due to raging so hard. It's been tough since I don't know when he does it since it's so random. :(
    • Empathetic Empathetic x 3
  6. MyBuddy

    MyBuddy Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Boy, that's a tough one. I don't have an answer for you. But if it were me, I'd set up a camera so that I can watch him and see if I can come up with a solution just by observing. And with most cameras you can also listen and speak. Wouldn't he be surprised if suddenly he heard you say, "QUIT!!" :spit:
    • Pure Genius! Pure Genius! x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. ArdynBane

    ArdynBane Jr Member

    I do have a camera that notifies me when he is barking, but I can't keep my camera on all the time while I'm at work. I check sporadically, and he's usually good.

    He also doesn't give a cr*p if I speak through the mic on the camera. If anything, he's more so "Ooouu whats that?" not "Omg that's mom, I'm in trouble!" Even tilts his head out of curiosity lol
    • Empathetic Empathetic x 1
  8. CRDobe

    CRDobe Notable member

    Would it be possible to put him in a safe room, where he could see out, (bathroom?) and use a tall, sturdy baby gate to confine him?
  9. JanS

    JanS DCF Owner Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    That certainly wouldn't hurt to try but I think it would need to be more than a gate too keep him in from the sounds of it.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    Damn that’s tough especially after splurging on that crate. I almost hate to suggest this, but what about this type of crate with solid walls? The front gate would need to be customized though. You’d have to decide if the bars along the top could stay.
    All for Paws Travel Dog Aluminum Crate | Walmart Canada

    If you didn’t NEED to crate him for trials, I’d just let him be free - this is crate rage for real! I mentioned claustrophobia in another thread...maybe it’s a real thing?

    Just checking, did you do positive association to the crate when you introduced it? I know you had him on CBD at one point too, that doesn’t help?
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    You may have already tried these but it’s worth mentioning...

    Try adding a crate cover to limit his visibility when you’re gone.

    Leave a radio on.

    Try giving him a good flirt pole session before crating him.

    Put him in the crate 15 mins before you leave and carry on getting ready.

    It’s a real tough situation, i sympathise with you.
    Tara was my first crate Houdini. She’d work that door and loosen the latch with her teeth. I even filmed her to see how she did it :eek:
    Thankfully, she’s not a destroyer and is an older Dobermann (5) so the crate disappeared and she’ll happily laze on the bed whilst we are at work.
    • Like Like x 2
  12. ArdynBane

    ArdynBane Jr Member

    The CBD helped only when he is currently home with me and stopped the excessive whining. It does nothing for when I leave him alone in crate.

    @Viemarangelrock Yes, I have literally tried everything you mentioned up there. It doesn't helped at all... Bane has to be crated because he is such an escape artist, crate or not (Hasn't escaped the Zinger), but he is also too immature. He has destroyed my property far too many times and also claws at the door, which I'm in a rental so he cannot do that for damage reasons. I can even be gone for 2 hours, and he had chewed all of my (of course) expensive shoes, jumped over the baby gate I had, etc. He's been super stressful not going to lie. He hasn't escaped the Zinger yet, but it's been a month and simply "letting him tough it out" isn't going to work either, as he is ruining his teeth.
    • Empathetic Empathetic x 5
  13. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Strong CBD oil and tire him out before going in the crate
    • Like Like x 1
  14. ArdynBane

    ArdynBane Jr Member

    I got the purest CBD oil that I can get within my area and he is always exercised prior to being crated. We track in the morning which takes about an hour and then a 40 minute walk. Also has his food in a Kong frozen in crate and only time he gets his breakfast so he knows that's only time he will eat and in crate.

    I don't mean to be shutting down an ideas or anything, it's just I've tried everything I can think of. Exercising prior to crating, letting him tough it out, CBD oil (Good quality one), only being fed during crating, crating while I am home... It's so sporadic and random and only when I am gone, I can't seem to figure out what triggers him to do it or how to correct him.
    • Empathetic Empathetic x 3
  15. jazzies mum

    jazzies mum Notable member

    I'm no expert at all but am trying to think of anything that might help. Do you think there might be something going on in your neighbourhood that starts the full on panic or rage? Because it is only happening at times maybe there is a particular trigger, one that is random. Which just makes it harder to track down of course. :(
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Sounds like separation anxiety...
  17. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    If it's sporadic... is there a noise going on inside or outside that could be setting him off, like what @jazzies mum said. I like the idea of white noise or radio like @Viemarangelrock suggested.

    We have a video doorbell so even if someone rings it, there is no sound that goes off within the house, just straight to our phones. I'm sure they can hear kids walking by after school and garbage trucks, etc., but ours don't seem bothered by it. Perhaps a neighbor dog barking during the day?

    Very frustrating indeed!
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. ArdynBane

    ArdynBane Jr Member

    I have the TV always on for him. It's funny, ever since I posted this thread, he hasn't crate raged since???

    I wonder if something is triggering him... Maybe someone knocked on my door? My neighbour has a yappy dog, but we hear the barking regularly and Bane knows who it is and where it's coming from. I don't know if maybe with me gone, that could be triggering?

    He does have separation anxiety... Been getting better, but still a lot of work.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    Interesting how that works, as soon as you vocalize your complaint, it goes away! I guess that means you should keep complaining. Haha.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. ArdynBane

    ArdynBane Jr Member

    Yeah, he hasn't tried at all I don't think. Crate is all dry and clean - no saliva or anything. Little bugger lol
    • Like Like x 1

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