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Rubie and Children

Discussion in 'Training & Behavior' started by LifeofRubie, Apr 16, 2018 at 11:04 AM.

  1. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    I am going to try and be unbiased and totally honest about this because I don't know if it's been a miss on our part, if we've tried too hard, or if this is just Rubie's personality and we just need to accept it and accommodate it!

    I've talked to a few people privately about this but now that we know the outcome, more or less, I feel comfortable bringing in the masses!

    We were at Home Depot several weeks ago and took Rubie with us like we've done dozens of times before. It wasn't busy but there were people around and a few families with kids. We just walked by and the kids cooed "puppy" but Rubie ignored them, like we work so hard with her on doing. We smile at the kids but we're there for a reason so keep moving.

    We're at the check out, paid, arms full of stuff and turn to head out the door and I hear "MOMMY PUPPY!" I turn my head and hear mom say, "No, we don't go up to strange dogs." And here come two toddlers, more or less. I should've just kept walking but I turned because I wanted to have a conversation with the two little kids; Rubie is in a perfect loose leash heel on my left side and turns with me.

    I'm not sure if me turning toward the children was all the invitation they needed or if they were going to run up behind us regardless but in they swoop like banshees, one on either side of Rubie, just squeeling with delight and the little girl goes in for a hug. I'm am literally saying DO NOT HUG!! when Rubie barks and a tooth scratches the little girl right above the eye. So now this little girl is screaming and there is blood and the little boy says, "Mommy, that's a BAD DOG!" Mom actually says, "No, she isn't. We DON'T go up to strange dogs!"

    We ask several, several times if there is anything we can do and is little girl OK and mom says, "Yes, we're fine. This is what insurance is for. You guys are good to go." Rubie is totally calm and still in a heel. So we leave. Of course some old guy says something smart to me like "this is why they shouldn't let dogs in here!" Took everything I had to not yell at him that it wasn't my dogs fault because you can't argue stuff like that with strangers when a child is crying.

    So we leave and I feel like I've failed Rubie. I start bawling when we get home. It's my job to set her up for success and I didn't stop these kids from swooping in. We should've just left her home because it had been a busy weekened and she was tired; I should've just kept walking; I should've been more firm with the kids about not coming up to us; blah blah blah. I talked to our trainer about it and a few folks on here and the consensus was basically the same: Mom should've been more in control of her kids, Rubie did what dogs do, and if Rubie had WANTED to hurt the little girl, it would've been more than a scratch.

    We get a call a week and a half later from the Police saying the want to talk to us about the 'incident' and they will get animal control to come visit, too, so now we're freaking out. My trainer said that doctors have to report dog bites. The police said the mom took her daughter to the hospital to get stitches but because it was close to her eye, they had to put her under, and because it was on her face, they had to call in a plastic surgeon so this thing grew into it's own monster.

    The police and animal control come so we have 4 geared up adults standing in our foyer and we're chatting with them and Rubie is going back and forth for attention and giving them puppy dog eyes and eating up the loving's. The one officer asked, "This... isn't the dog, is it?!" And we said, "why, yes it is!" We tell our side of the story, they ask a few clarification questions. Does she go out into public often? ALL THE DAMN TIME! Has she been around kids since the incident? YES, LAST WEEKEND (we'd had our nieces over). I explain all the training we do with her and her certifications, etc. Rubie had to go get a Rabies Release from the vet (since it had already been a week and half she just got the 10 day release).

    And then they leave and we... wait. The anxiety of waiting has been the most stressful part but FINALLY Animal Control called on Friday; over a week since they'd been to our house. They explained that they had the video from Home Depot of the incident and they have watched it over and over and over WITH the police and they all agree it was a "provoked bite." I was very appreciative of her explanation because the way the dog bite law in Illinois is worded, if it's "provoked," the dog owner is not liable. PHEW WHAT A WEIGHT LIFTED. I feel horrible that the little girl might be scared of dogs now but so glad that the consensus was in our favor.

    Animal Control could've have done a 'dangerous dog' investigation on Rubie and if it had been deemed she was dangerous, she would've had to wear a leash and muzzle at all times in public. We're still getting a "do not let it happen again" letter but luckily no label or muzzle.

    So this past weekend, we had a friend in town with his 4 year old daughter (they're having twins in a month or so so it was a last Hurrah in the city with just the two of them!) so they came and stayed at our house on Saturday. Norris's mom was there too, another friend came over just by himself, and then another friend with his 5 year old son. I kept Rubie with me most of the night and just had her shadow me.

    The 5 year old boy has grown up with two large dogs and was AMAZING with Rubie. He didn't approach her but waited for her to approach him; then he let her smell his hand; and when he pet her, he just scratched her under the chin in a slow and calm manner. At some point in the night, he was telling her to "sit," and "wait," and then "OK" and would give her a treat with his flat hand. Rubie loved it!


    When things were slowing down a bit and the little girl was finally in her PJs on the couch, watching TV, Rubie voluntarily laid down next to her.


    Sunday morning, I'm not sure if Rubie was still just overstimulated from the night before or just ready to get some puppy down time but the little girl was jumping around with the high pitched voice near Rubie's food bowl and Rubie barked at her :( We're so overly sensitive about this now that Norris about had a heart attack. Girl was fine, dad was un-phased, Rubie instantly forgot about it.

    After little girl and and dad left, the nieces came over and they are so loud and in-your-face that we just put Rubie in her crate instead of push her any further. And she seemed fine with it if not downright pleased for some alone time.

    So after ALL that rant above, here are my questions:

    - Has this Home Depot incident messed with Rubie? Is she so on-guard about keeping kids away from her that she'll be less tolerant with them and their proximity in the future?
    - Short of asking for a child tribute, how do we foster positive interactions so she's not going to assume the worst from kids?
    - do we just say no kids anytime ever in public (I have a DO NOT PET vest on order) and keep her tethered to us when they're at the house; knowing that she'll gladly go into her crate if we notice she's not enjoying herself?

    I do not think that all dogs have to tolerate all people at all times. Some dogs can do it; Rubie can't. She's been around the nieces since she was a puppy but even then, she didn't seem to enjoy the intensity of children (honestly, I don't always blame her!).

    I'm just so on edge because she's used up her 'freebie' and I absolutely want to set her up for success and I feel like I've failed her some where.

    I will admit we do play around with her on the floor but she KNOWS that she is NEVER to use teeth on skin. She will open her mouth but those teeth do not touch our arms/legs/face, anything. She will throw in a flea bite here and there but never anything else. I will not force my face into Rubie's but I do make it a point to get my face close to hers and always have, hoping that it wouldn't freak her out then, if someone else did.

    I know Moose will most likely THRIVE off the attention of children so if Rubie just isn't built for it, she isn't built for it and I can't fault her for that.
    • Empathetic Empathetic x 6
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    My first Doberman was not particularly fond of being around kids. There were a couple kids that he would interact with but they were 10yrs old and respectful of his space.
    My second Doberman Gracie, did not like the high pitched squeal that kids insist on doing and would become nervous. There was only one kid she would be around without any issues. She actually loved this kid. They would play and swim and nap together. The child was 5yrs old when Gracie first met her. Gracie bit her in the back but it was a fly bite playing situation which I stopped immediately. I would have to keep Gracie upstairs when other kids were around because of the sudden movements and high pitched screams.

    Bacall loves babies and almost all kids but I am still cautious.
    Bogie has a thing for little blonde haired girls and will follow them and try to lick them. Still I don’t trust the situation and keep him close to me on lead.

    I think some dogs just don’t like the high pitch noises and sudden movements these kids make and it’s through no fault of yours or Rubie’s.
    It amazes me how many people come up to my pups without permission when we are in Home Depot and they have their vests on that has the In Training and Do Not Pet stickers on the vest.
    It’s overwhelming for your dog to have a sudden swarm of squeals and arms headed their way. Do not blame yourself!!
    I freak out too when people run up to me and try to hug my neck. :eek:
    I can only imagine how the dogs feel.
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1

    GOD'S GRACE Notable member

    First, sorry to hear you had an issue...I had a similar issue at the park while walking on a "wide" path... Mom and little girl coming the other way, girl is 2yr old...Girl starts shouting puppy, puppy... (from25') Mom says is dog friendly, I response yes, but I need you to wait while I settled her and then you can approach but don't touch her...let her get to know you... (Grace was 10-11 months and still very much in training, but I felt due to pass experiences it would be good for all)...THAT"S WHEN all hell broke lose...Mom let's go of the child and the 2yr comes running...Grace rears up and starts defending me, I had her on the 1 foot loop on the lease so nothing happened, except one very scared little girl....The Mom got pissed, the child cried, Grace sat down and I explained the errors...haven't seen them at the park since...:(

    HERE"S my take aways from my encounter...1...People are the problem not the dogs...2...I now have a service harness for outside activity with DO NOT PET signs...3...I not longer allow Grace to be approached by people & kids (it serves no positive purpose for US, Grace gets plenty of contact here in the "hood")...4...When in close quarters I always have the eCollar on and ready to go and the lease on the 1 foot loop...5...I'm not afraid to tell people "we" need our space...6...I don't sweat others mistakes...:)

    Again, I so sorry fo your upsetting experience. Please remember, Rubie lives in the NOW and doesn't think twice about it...take a deep breath and let it go...your fears later on might spark another incident...I know you'll over come this and move forward.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Regalis

    Regalis Notable member

    First - this is not your fault. Or Rubies.

    I've known many truly fantastic dogs that just can't handle young, obnoxious kids. Who can really blame them? I'd snap to if some little strange humans ran up, screamed and squeeled at me and tried to hug me.

    Unfortunately, it does mean you'll have to be more cautious with her in public places where kids tend to run crazy. Is it fair? NO!

    That said - I would NOT crate her when kids come over. Atleast not without really talking it over with your trainer. My sister used to kennel her old St. Bernard when kids came over. Not because he was mean, but because he was huuuuge and she was worried he would unintentionally hurt a kid. They also kenneled him when women came over (with very few exceptions like me and our mom) for the same reason. He was truly massive. Not fat, just friggin huge.

    Long story short - Max ended up associating women and kids with being kenneled. He was used to having run of their acreage whenever anyone was home. He ended up getting to the point that now instead of worrying about an accident, he was actively aggressive towards women and kids (again, except people like me and Mom who he got to socialize with). But he was totally fine with men and older boys. It became a huge problem. And liability. They sighed a breath relief when he passed. Not because they didn't love him, but because it has become increasingly hard to deal with when all their friends were popping out kids left and right.

    Could he have overcome it? ... I don't know. They didn't feel it was worth even risking.

    At minimum, I would strap on some do not pet patches that are hard to miss. Increase your own awareness and stop interactions with kids, even if that means you have to be rude and walk away. Atleast in public.

    Guided, positive associations with calm kids may help, but you can't guarantee strange kids in public will behave appropriately. It may sound mean, but I never ever let people come up to my dogs. It's just not worth the risk. Too many dumba$$es out there.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  5. blacknrust

    blacknrust Member

    I'm so sorry you have to go through this.
    From all your posts Ruby is way more socialized than my Maeve.
    I think this was just an unfortunate event. The first time Maeve went to a college to visit with students taking finals she seemed uncomfortable with a small group petting her all at once. I passed it off as being her first time in this situation. Fast forward 2 weeks different college she clearly was stressed and not enjoying herself. Lesson learned. I have three teenagers and their friends coming and going all the time. Maeve loves them all but it can be overwhelming for her. So she is crated or she hangs with me.
    I do not think in any way you failed her, if she wanted to hurt that child she could have. It was an unfortunate accident and not Ruby's fault.
    • Agree Agree x 5
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  6. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Rubie was provoked :( She’s a living creature that thinks, feels and gets frightened just like us. If she was scared, worried or felt trapped then that would of been her trigger. The whole ordeal was preventable by the MOTHER!! We have control of our dogs she in turn should control her children. Also remember that Ruby is now an adult, they hit maturity and say ‘NO!’ when they are pups they put up with a lot more and are pretty tolerant to a degree.

    As for Tara, for now, she no longer takes the school run with me. An easy decision to make as I’ve watched and sensed her body language change outside of the school gates. She was fine whilst we waited and parents arrived but the first sight of children running out of school, the noise, the speed of them...she showed signs of being uncomfortable. I don’t want to put her in that situation where she feels stressed and vulnerable.
    I now walk her approx 30 mins before schools out and leave her at home whilst I collect Bailey.

    Please, don’t let your emotions get the better of you. ANY dog can bite if provoked. Rubie was leashed and said “Since I can’t get away, I’ll growl & snap at this kid to get the child to move away!”
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    So scary and I'm so sorry this all happened. But thank God that you have all that training on Rubie to prove how great of a dog she really is!!! I wouldn't blame her.

    Paige as you know is similar in that kids moving too fast upsets her where she feels uncomfortable. We don't fault her. We simply make adjustments to our life to cater to her, all while trying to insure she has positive experiences. She doesn't go out much but when she does, we keep to ourselves and keep moving. So kid on dog instances in public are very rare. IF someone wants to meet Paige, I tell them that they can pet Java first and only let Paige come up to them on her own. She's fine with that and people are happy to oblige since they can pet Java. I feel it helps Paige too to see Java is ok with them (which she always is).

    So I really think Moose will be a positive thing for you guys so long as you take Moose out separately at times so he can learn how to positively interact with humans without any of Rubies vibes rubbing off on him. Then when he interacts so willingly with children I think she will soften more. Still feel free to use the approach that I do and let people pet the lab first, and the slightly reactive dog second IF that dog chooses to come up to them. :) Everything will be fine!
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  8. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    You guys are all the best! I love that we can share our very real life stories and be so supportive!

    I KNOW! That's what I wanted to say to the guy who thought he was being productive with his comments when he wasn't anywhere near the situation when it happened. How would YOU feel if someone you didn't know ran up to you and threw their arms around your neck?? You'd say GET THE EFF OFF ME but dogs don't have words. Jack@ss.

    You're so right. When we take Rubie out to the brewery, which we often do, she LOVES the adults. Their seating is very open and often times there will be a couple of groups of people at a table. Rubie will go from person to person and insist on being pet. That to me is totally fine, as long as the people are OK with it (which we ALWAYS ask before we sit down). I don't doubt we'll still have to turn people away, even with the DO NOT PET patches. Norris feels less comfortable doing that but we've talked about how the conversation should go and I hope that generally people will get it. Kids don't need to wear t-shirts that say "Don't pinch my cheeks," why would a dog be any different?? We have been using the eCollar when kids are at the house and I keep Rubie by my side.

    Yes, we did discuss that putting her in the care could make the association worse but really, she had all of Saturday night and evening around a large group of people with the couple of kids and it just didn't seem fair to put her into the same situation when she was clearly pretty over it. This is the first time we've gone that route and she was just exhausted. I do not want to do it every time kids are over but I do want her to know that being away from the craziness and relaxing is OK, too. I will talk to the trainer about it and get her spin; she knows Rubie and we've been talking about the 'incident' and she's sure it was a worse case scenario all around and not indicative of Rubie as a whole. But I still want to set her up for success!

    That's awesome that you were able to identify her feelings in that situation and are able to avoid it! And yes, I've had a few people tell me that that little girl learned a very valuable and arguably 'gentle' lesson from Rubie. I can't imagine if she'd done to a dog that didn't have restraint or that wasn't under the control of someone! It still really bums me out that it was Rubie who taught it to her, though.

    Again, awesome that you recognized that! I think that's another area where Kobi reminded me so much of my last boy, Tobie. Tobie LOOOVED children. The smaller, the better. He would lick them from chin to forehead!

    I do think Rubie will learn just as much from Moose as he learns from her. We've been talking a lot about how we're going to work on training them separately AND together. We did get to do this a couple of times when Stella the bulldog came to visit. She was so tolerant and loved attention from anyone and everyone. Rubie would watch and almost seem to think, Hey, those folks are ok and I want attention, too! That being said, I do think Moose will get to go to more family events and super social gatherings, having not met our pup yet but making assumptions about their mannerisms, and I think that is totally OK.

    You all have such valuable feedback and understanding. Makes me want to cry all over again but happy tears! I just love this pooch so much and she's been such an amazing dog and so willing to do anything and everything. I just had that feeling of dread... of COURSE this would happen to Rubie, a Doberman, but I think we've had the best possible outcome and luckily there was video footage of it. I had literally started making a list of where we've taken her, knowing I had photo evidence, just in case we did have go through the 'dangerous dog investigation.' We have a couple of events coming up in the next few months that we're still planning on attending but we are definitely going to be more conservative on who we approach and how - which will be very interesting when we've got a puppy in tow!
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    I think putting her away when shes showing signs of being over it and stressed is totally okay and fair to her. We took Paige to the in-laws place and there are 4 very rambunctious boys there. The older ones "get it" on letting her come up to them but the youngest (3yo) did not. So once Paige started panting, or showed avoidance, we simply took her outside for a potty break and freedom from the kids until she relaxed, then put her away in her kennel for a nap. This worked out wonderfully for us so Paige could get a break from the activity, we could relax and interact with our family, and everyone still got some positive exposure to each other.

    You know Rubie best so you will know when its time for her to have a break, and I don't think she'll associate it with bad since she likes her kennel and is clearly giving you signs she wants her space. I do understand however where someone that always puts their dog away could cause some resentment. I don't think that will be the case with Rubie.
    • Agree Agree x 5
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  10. MyBuddy

    MyBuddy Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Oh, my stomach was churning as I read your story! I know Rubie is well socialized and trained but when I started to read that the girls where running in for a hug....OMG....its like everything was moving in slow motion, wasn't it? Only, it was over in an instant! I could see it coming. And then its too late to even say anything.

    First off, I believe this....
    I've heard some people say things like, its a dog, he should be trained, he should be this or that. But what they don't realize is that they are still....
    And they DO get frightened! It's a defense mechanism.

    Buddy is SO good with the kids! But do you think I NEVER have to watch him with kids? No On Your Life. I know my dog. He can be wonderful. But I know he doesn't like to feel trapped. If he is cornered, or held tightly, he's scared! And he will struggle to get free. I can do most anything to him. But just me. He knows me and I know how handle him and when he's pushed to far. Rubie was more or less cornered. And scared. And yes, you hope they never bite out of fear. But, like you said, she could have bit much worse if she really wanted to. She just wanted her out of her face. It's too bad that she got her face and then it escalated into a minor surgery. And on a side note, sometimes I feel stitches leave more of a scar than letting it heal 'normally'. Just my opinion, but I've seen many stitches that left a good scar!

    Anyway, it's SO hard to keep everyone away from your dog. But when a couple of girls come running in for a hug... oh man. I watch my grandkids all the time with faces right up to the dogs! I just told the oldest (7) over the weekend when he was right up in Kali face. :nono: Do NOT do this! I said, they don't understand that you are being loving. You are in their space! It's like the joke, "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you!" All the while you aren't touching, but you are in their face! It's annoying. You can't expect a dog to sit back and not say, HEY, cut it out!! (by a bite or growl)

    I'm with you on how your felt. I would have balled like a baby myself. And I would have been worried sick. Now that it's over and they have sided with you, all you can do is try to move forward. I would continue your training and socializing, but I think this is good advice too:
    Except maybe for #4. I would try and NOT be in close quarters, first of all. But if I was, I don't feel comfortable using an e-collar as a correction in close quarters. I think that might spur MORE aggitation, than stop it. I hate crowds so if I'm uncomfortable, my dog probably is too, so I'd try and get out of the situation.

    #5 for sure! I'm not afraid of saying something that would protect my dog and others.

    I know for myself, I will often find myself wanting to pet a strange dog! I'm an animal lover and there are times when I am all, Awwwww, he's so cute!! and I have to stop myself from touching!! lol So for someone that knows its a no-no to want to do that, can you imagine how others feel? Especially a child. It's hard to resist. So I guess we have to be as on top of things as we can with our dogs. Ever watchful in assessing a situation (like my grandson and Kali) Knowing that a situation needs me to step in before something happens! Because it can happen so fast!

    And if a child is jumping up and down in front of the dogs bowl, she may be the one that needs assessing. ;) Children need to be taught that their actions can be scaring the dog, or making them feel threatened. I try and use an example using the child, in hopes that they can be compassionate to how the dog is feeling. Maybe putting my face right in their face, not saying anything (like a dog can't talk) and see if they can 'feel' what the dog may be feeling.

    Wishing you the best with this. Hang in there and Don't beat yourself up.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Appreciation Appreciation x 2
  11. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I so agree with this!! My dogs come first period!

    I am such a Doberman snob that when people approach us in a store and the twins have their Do Not Pet/In Training vests on, I have to keep from rolling my eyes at their request to pet or give a treat before I say NO!

    I have had kids run up to Bogie in Home Depot and I yell at them to freeze, no running up to my dog!
    The parents cop an attitude with me and ask why I brought them if I didn’t want them to be petted. Last time I checked Home Depot was not listed as a petting zoo.
    I need to get the stickers in Spanish too. Lots of non English speaking people here.
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1

    GOD'S GRACE Notable member

    • Funny Funny x 3
  13. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    You are so right! I love dogs, I know how to approach them and we work hard on having Rubie focus on US when out and about. I still have to remind myself that others may be doing the same so I will always smile at dogs but I will often forgo asking if I can pet. If we're out with Rubie and I have treats and Rubie is focusing on US and being her amazing self, I may go over and ask if I can give their dog a treat but I always make them sit first ;) and then Rubie get's extra's for 'allowing' me to interact with another dog. Ha.

    And YES. I can do anything to Rubie and she will not react. I think I've really taken that for granted. Never a snap, snarl, or growl. I poke and prod and spray and dremmel and pinch and squeeze and... nothing. She's never reacted to the vet doing any of the same, either. And I THINK most adults would be able to get away with it with her. It's just kids.

    This is the snotty comment that I still haven't come up with an equally snotty response to so I'll have to remember that one ;)
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Notable member

    I agree with everyone but wanted to offer additional reassurance that you didn't do anything wrong. It was 2 kids that came running up not just 1, and that would feel overwhelming to anyone. I do think it's great that the mom recognized the kids were at fault. I was instantly relieved that she did not go into 'panic mom' mode like in the story from @GOD'S GRACE.

    Of course there would be some jerk making needless comments about dogs in stores :rolleyes: He should mind his own business seeing as how the impacted parties had it all handled.

    This really did turn into a "monster" with calling in a plastic surgeon. She's such a young child that I'm sure there won't be any scar from this.

    I'm also relived that the animal control people were not over zealous jerks like some bylaw officers can be. And getting video from Home Depot? Watching it with the cops? That is very thorough! It is great that they have deemed this to be a provoked act. Let this be a lesson to all of us!

    My biggest worry for myself would be my own nerves, so I think you need to have some kid free time to get over this encounter and forget about it lest she start picking up your vibes around kids. I know, easier said than done.

    From Rubie's perspective, she's always out there and in top form :thumbsup2: so there's no "failing" on your part. Seems to me that kids and their noise become overwhelming after some time. It does for me too! ;) She is used to a quieter household. I know when I go into loud places, it's a relief to leave. I like the occasional crating when hyper kids are around, but also like the story from @Regalis regarding unintentional associations.

    On to scarier things: Do they know that you're "the" Life of Rubie? You're very open and identifiable across so many social media channels...my only concern for you now is a civil suit. Even this mom could flip like a switch if she knew she could take you for some money. If it were me, I'd delete, delete, delete, any postings with your face so in case she would be looking up Doberman info (for whatever reason!), she can't connect you to Rubie.
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  15. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    Thank you for the kind words. I DID think about the social media aspect, and even this forum shows up when you search life.of.rubie which is why I wanted there to be some resolution. I honestly think my Instagram would work in our favor. It's Rubie in all sorts of situations (breweries, the arboretum, off leash parks, baseball games) behaving and we talk about training often enough. I honestly don't know...

    Look at this sweet face
    • Like Like x 9

    GOD'S GRACE Notable member

    @LifeofRubie ....Don't be surprised when she still gets people looking to Pet her...I'm not rude when they try, I just smile and say I think she'll bite...ahahahahahah..
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. MyBuddy

    MyBuddy Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    I've done that with some pets of people I know and you'd be surprised how many didn't even know that command! :groan:
    • Agree Agree x 5
  18. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Oh, man, don't be hard on yourself! You have NOTHING to be embarrassed about! You have done great training with Rubie and she behaved in a very understandable manner.

    I don't wish any kids to get bitten (or, as in this case, scuffed by a tooth) but think about it: Parents need to instill some common sense, some knowledge and some discipline in their children!!! Really, the kid learned a lesson her parents did not teach her. Will she be afraid of dogs in the future? I don't know. Possibly; but it is her parents' fault.

    I have shared here that my first Doberman was freaked out by kids and even tweens. I did not socialize him around any kids though, and in fact not around many adults either. Kids would just make him react in a way that seemed to say: "I don't like you! Get away from me right now!" This consisted of him barking/growling/snapping at them in the space of about one second. Yes, he bit three different children. Well, I say "bit" but it was a nip with the incisors. Not a major bite, but no small thing either what with the jaw power and scissors bite. It's by the grace of God that I never got in any trouble for these incidents! Two of the nips were perpetrated upon relatives of friends, and involved the kid running past my boy.

    The third was very similar to your incident. A toddler quickly walked right up to my Dobe. Face-to-face. I am very very fortunate that the girl instinctively moved turned around and only got nipped on the back. As I sit here and think about this now, it had to be a miracle that the kid turned around that fast. I mean seriously. No way she was capable of moving faster than the snap of my Doberman. I think I was kept out of more trouble that day because someone was looking out for me. As it unfolded, the people at my run-down apartment complex sort of banded together and there were murmurs of "He should be put down." The cops never showed up to my place, probably because the people didn't want any cops coming around. The mother did come and ask for his shot records. So yeah, I called a friend for some help in getting a U-haul truck and packing up and getting right on out of there. Really an amazing situation all around.

    I know the feeling of living on-edge in fear of my Dobe biting someone. The stakes are so high! VERY good thing that your locality has a provoked-bite law. That is a good, common sense law! Some places, as I understand it, the owner is always liable no matter what if their dog bites. :facepalm:

    I'll keep you, Rubie and your family in my thoughts and prayers; but it's so great that you got through this relatively unscathed!
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  19. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    @LifeofRubie don't you DARE get down on yourself! :rp: ( this is me reprimanding you for doubting yourself lol) You have done a GREAT job with her! She is a VERY well socialized doberman. And a beauty to boot! :love:

    Rubie has not been raised 24/7 with screaming babies, terrible toddlers, and crazy kids! 2 kids squealing and running for her was scary!! I feel like you have socialized her greatly, but now that you see she is uneasy in certain kid situations maybe some time at the local play ground watching at a distance getting used to the sights and sounds of the crazed young humans?

    This is the NORM when there is an injury to the face.

    THIS is me whenever we are out and about. I am always thinking worse case senario. Paranoid? why yes I am. But not about my dog, it's everybody else!

    When we first got our Ruby she was 15 wks? old, she DID NOT like to be cuddled, if you sat down by her on the couch she moved to the other side. I wasn't too happy but thought "ok you don't like to cuddle, that's fine, every dog is different." As she settled into the house and started watching Spike our male getting all kinds of couch cuddle time, she realized she was missing out on something! She has now become the biggest cuddler, constantly competing with Spike on who can get the spot next to mom first and then LAY half our body onto her!They really do learn from each other! If moose is a lover of children Rubie may end up being one too, or maybe not, that's OK too.
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  20. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    You tell other people's dogs to sit? Ooooohh. Pet peeve of mine. :nono: Though, of course Oji's not trained in English; and I sometimes tell the people with a smile "He barely listens to me. He's not gonna' listen to you."
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