Recent uk news re banning American xl bullies and your thoughts?

[Dobielurcher]

So...I am a massive believer in..its the owner not the dogs but we know pitties were bred to fight. I've heard the xl bullies are a mix of American bulldog x pitbull then I heard they were a mix of English bulldog American bulldog pittball and staff. I have had many breeds and my American bulldog was not my favourite...only because he wasn't given the proper time and training love and attention he deserved (this was out of my control ..but can illiterate if needs be) anyways. I know any breed including xl bullies can be the most fantastic dog, but right now in the UK they ate falling into the wrong hands. Inexperienced ppl who have no f ING clue how to care for these powerful dogs and its getting out of control... thought???

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I believe it's a lot more nature (as opposed to nurture) than most people think. I find the mantra "It's all in how you raise them" cringeworthy.

My understanding of the American Bully is it supposedly has had aggression bred out of it. I assume that's dog aggression they're talking about, since I understand that Pit Bulls are not really good guard dogs generally speaking because they don't tend to have a lot of human aggression. Yes, if you don't socialize one, and/or if you have it chained out to guard a house or property it can act aggressively and may bite; and yes, they do tend to hold on to those bites.

If you watch the video from that blonde woman who has the Animal Watch channel on Youtube, you'll see an episode on American Bullies. The owners/breeders in the vid, and the hostess claim the aggression has been bred out of the breed. I don't really discount the veracity of that, but one has to wonder if it may have crept back in at some point.

Now, don't get me started on the Pocket Bully which is deformed through breeding for as short a height as possible. Often, its belly/penis is dragging on the ground and it's just a messed up dog. Poor things.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Also: Are they just banning the XL American Bullies, or is it the other sizes of American Bullies as well? (the XL being the largest, as one might imagine)

 

[JanS]

It all comes down to how they're trained and not the breed reputation. Yes Bully breeds are capable of a hard bite but so are many other breeds. It's a stereotypical mindset of clueless people.

 

[Ravenbird]

The announcement I saw is posted below. From this statement, I'm a bit confused why an additional "breed" needs to be specified. Seems like there is a very good, strong law in place right now against dangerous dogs. Aggressive dogs, no matter what the breed - should never be tolerated. If dogs were euthanized and owners fined or given jail time, maybe then people will train their dogs or keep them isolated from the public.

Bully breeds are generally nice dogs if properly socialized and trained, but here in the U.S. the liability of even owning one is so high, I wouldn't even consider it. Shelters often label them "Labrador Mix" or "Shepherd Mix" - anything to avoid the Pit Bull name.

Environment Secretary Therese Coffey said:​

Dog attacks are devastating for victims and their families and it is clear that more now needs to be done to stop them and protect the public. That is why we are taking decisive action to ban the American XL Bully.

This is on top of the work the Government has been doing for some time with the police and local authorities to encourage responsible dog ownership and make sure the full force of the law is being applied.

Under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, a definition of the ‘American XL Bully’ breed type needs to be specified – including clear assessment criteria for enforcement authorities – in order to impose a ban. The Government must then lay a Statutory Instrument to add it to the list of dogs banned under the Act. This will make it an offence to own, breed, gift or sell an XL bully. We will do this by the end of the year.
We need to safely manage the existing population of these dogs, therefore there will be a transition period. Further details on how the transition period will work will be provided in due course. Current XL Bully dog owners do not need to take any action at this stage however, if XL Bully owners do not come forward during the transition period, they will be committing a criminal offence if they are subsequently found to be keeping one of these dogs.
Owners whose dogs are dangerously out of control are already breaking the law, and we already have a full range of powers to apply penalties to them. Under the Dangerous Dogs Act, people can be put in prison for up to 14 years, be disqualified from ownership or their dangerous dogs can be euthanised.
Further detail on next steps for developing a ban and information for owners will be provided in due course.

 

[Rits]

Breed bans don't work. The problem will just continue to exist in another breed.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

Have there been a large number of bites or attacks or maulings done by XL Am. Bullies? What about Standard Am. Bullies? Are they sure at all? What about regular old Pit Bulls or the slew of mixes that look enough like PIts to be called Pits?

I would imagine there are a bunch more bites/attacks by Pits than actual Am. Bullies. I bet they are overreacting to the appearance of the Am. Bully. A lot of them look monstrous with the big heads and jaws. They instill fear in the uninitiated.

It just doesn't sound right to me that Am. Bullies ought to be banned; and again, is it jus the XL? I see in the verbiage above, provided by Ravenbird, that that is the only type called out.

 

[Ravenbird]

Have there been a large number of bites or attacks or maulings done by XL Am. Bullies? What about Standard Am. Bullies? Are they sure at all? What about regular old Pit Bulls or the slew of mixes that look enough like PIts to be called Pits?

The XL Bully breed has been linked to at least two fatal attacks this year and six of the 10 fatal dog attacks in the U.K. last year, according to the BBC, after a 65-year-old-woman was killed while breaking up a fight between her two dogs in April.

The XL Bully, if classified as a breed, would be the fifth breed to be banned in the U.K. The pit bull terrier, Japanese toso, dogo Argentino and fila Brasileiro are all banned under the Dangerous Dogs Act, which also prohibits any dog that is “dangerously out of control.”

^^^ from a Forbes news article ^^^

And in the U.S. any Pit Bull or PB mix is way over-represented in bites and fatalities. You cannot change genetics, so you need to have a damn good reason to want this type of dog.

 

[Rits]

And in the U.S. any Pit Bull or PB mix is way over-represented in bites and fatalities. You cannot change genetics, so you need to have a damn good reason to want this type of dog.

The issue is that so many dogs get labeled as pit bull when they are wrong. Just like some are called lab mixes there are so many other breeds being mislabeled as "pit bull" Think any short coated, muscular blocky head breed. The number of people that can't pass those "pick the pitbull" tests is likely crazy high. I've even had some of the tests get me. Over represented and misrepresented.

 

[Ravenbird]

The issue is that so many dogs get labeled as pit bull when they are wrong. Just like some are called lab mixes there are so many other breeds being mislabeled as "pit bull" Think any short coated, muscular blocky head breed. Over represented and misrepresented.

Just want to clarify I've known many many Pits and Pit mixes and never once met a bad one. I'm not against this breed or any breed, but an example of what I was talking about is a few years ago, when an older couple here in the neighborhood said they got a new puppy from the shelter - a black lab mix - and we went over to see it and it appeared to be 90%+ Pit Bull, looked nothing like a lab except black hair (slick and single coated). She was as sweet as could be, but it is unfair to the owners (not knowledgable dog people) to not know some of the inherent traits of the dog they bring home. But all that aside, it's purposefuliy misleading and that's what makes me cross. The dog I often take care of for my neighbors is another one from the shelter - they got her as a small puppy and was told it was "probably mostly Jack Russel" (she's white with brown spots). At the time she was as big as a full grown JRT and only about 10 weeks old. She's not a problem and never will be, I just hate that they are misleading innocent people about what their new puppy is made of.

As I said, breed bans are not the answer. In the UK, the other problem is that they have already banned the very tools that can help train and control dogs with behavioral problems, so then you have the death before discomfort people unwilling to allow owners of aggressive dogs a reliable way to deal with them.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

I agree. Probably 80% of the dogs for adoption at the local shelter are Pit mixes. The website used to say so, or maybe it was Staffie mix (sounds better). I just pulled up the, apparently redesigned, website and they are all listed just as mixed breeds.

Another form of misinforming people: The Pit Bull rescue organizations and the adoption events they hold. AllI see and hear is these dogs are so sweet and just want to cuddle and, oh yeah, they are the original "Nanny Dog". Seems to me the main target audience is young hipster types who, in my estimation, are nowhere near equipped to handle situations gone awry, and are believing all the smoke.

I have long admired Pits, but they way I describe these type of dogs is they have dangerous potential. This, especially in numbers greater than one.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

The XL Bully, if classified as a breed, would be the fifth breed to be banned in the U.K. The pit bull terrier, Japanese toso, dogo Argentino and fila Brasileiro are all banned under the Dangerous Dogs Act, which also prohibits any dog that is “dangerously out of control.”

^^^ from a Forbes news article ^^^

Thanks. The Forbes article indicates that Pits were already banned. Got it. It also has the Tosa Inu's name wrong. Presas must not be common there, or they'd be on the list too.

I still find it interesting that they only name the XL Bully. That is simply the largest version of the American Bully. The Standard is about the size of many Pits. I wonder if they think they're all XL Bullies, just as many think that they're all Pits.

 

[Rits]

Just want to clarify I've known many many Pits and Pit mixes and never once met a bad one. I'm not against this breed or any breed, but an example of what I was talking about is a few years ago, when an older couple here in the neighborhood said they got a new puppy from the shelter - a black lab mix - and we went over to see it and it appeared to be 90%+ Pit Bull, looked nothing like a lab except black hair (slick and single coated). She was as sweet as could be, but it is unfair to the owners (not knowledgable dog people) to not know some of the inherent traits of the dog they bring home. But all that aside, it's purposefuliy misleading and that's what makes me cross. The dog I often take care of for my neighbors is another one from the shelter - they got her as a small puppy and was told it was "probably mostly Jack Russel" (she's white with brown spots). At the time she was as big as a full grown JRT and only about 10 weeks old. She's not a problem and never will be, I just hate that they are misleading innocent people about what their new puppy is made of.

As I said, breed bans are not the answer. In the UK, the other problem is that they have already banned the very tools that can help train and control dogs with behavioral problems, so then you have the death before discomfort people unwilling to allow owners of aggressive dogs a reliable way to deal with them.

Oh I don't disagree on that part calling some something they are not to avoid calling them what they are. I was just pointing out that so many other breeds of dogs are just labeled pit mix when it comes to police reports just as much as shelters are wrongly calling them some other breed. Which obviously fudges statistics. I wouldn't go as far as saying they don't make up a large % but I also believe a large % of what is represented is misrepresented by wrong identification. You see it even in our breed. "Is that a great dane?" or to a fawn/blue, "Is that a weimaraner?" "I had a miniature doberman once" So many people are just so ill informed. But yes, the people that don't want to train their dogs shouldn't have dogs to begin with, let a lone a pitbull type breed. I guess if they were to have one they should stick with a golden or a lab, or even better, some low energy companion breed. Researching a breed and making sure it is fit for their family before purchase? Not something your average family does.

 

[Ukesox]

As a U.K. resident who’s owned ”dangerous” Dobermans for 40 years my take is that this talk is a knee jerk reaction by a struggling government that needs a headline grabber which will make it look like it’s able to take decisive action.
The truth is that the current legislation (dangerous dogs act) gives authorities every power that’s needed to deal with out of control dogs. There is no need for breed specific bans but rather the will to implement what already exists.

 

[Ravenbird]

The truth is that the current legislation (dangerous dogs act) gives authorities every power that’s needed to deal with out of control dogs. There is no need for breed specific bans but rather the will to implement what already exists.

That's exactly how I read it! Why involve breeds at all? Punish the deed, not the breed. A mantra I've been saying for a long time.

 

[Kswoodssue]

This last couple weeks, I have been working in a lovely town near us, where the average income is triple my own. Besides feeling decidedly under dressed, I have felt overwhelmed by “doodles”. Oodles and oodles of misbehaving, untrained doodles in pretty pink harnesses. The doodles are an accessory, like a purse or scarf. Don’t get me wrong, I have doodle loving, responsible owner friends, who adore their curly buddies, but … The plethora of doodles is a direct response to trends. Anyone with a male, intact poodle could be rolling in cash. In fact, maybe the town’s average income is bolstered by doodle whelping. Ok I digress. That said, like any other animals bred for trends and money, quantity overrides quality. Perhaps a halt in ownership and breeding will stop the irresponsible overproduction of these xl bullies, trends will change, and respectable breeders can focus on temperament and confirmation, and the breed will return better for it.

 

[Oh Little Oji]

This last couple weeks, I have been working in a lovely town near us, where the average income is triple my own. Besides feeling decidedly under dressed, I have felt overwhelmed by “doodles”. Oodles and oodles of misbehaving, untrained doodles in pretty pink harnesses. The doodles are an accessory, like a purse or scarf. Don’t get me wrong, I have doodle loving, responsible owner friends, who adore their curly buddies, but … The plethora of doodles is a direct response to trends. Anyone with a male, intact poodle could be rolling in cash. In fact, maybe the town’s average income is bolstered by doodle whelping. Ok I digress. That said, like any other animals bred for trends and money, quantity overrides quality. Perhaps a halt in ownership and breeding will stop the irresponsible overproduction of these xl bullies, trends will change, and respectable breeders can focus on temperament and confirmation, and the breed will return better for it.

Yes! We live in one of the more lovely neighborhoods in this Ohio town, and I can confirm that the doodle is the unofficial official dog of this place. Heck, it's even the case that the actual Poodle is right up there in the top 5 breeds in AKC registration. I don't know how popular the Poodle was before doodlemaina but I bet it's significantly more popular now.

This stupid doodle tidal wave is one of the chief reasons I decided against getting a Black Russian Terrier. A very noble breed designed by the Russian military, I know without a doubt that most people would assume I was walking a large black doodle down the street.

 

[Ravenbird]

This last couple weeks, I have been working in a lovely town near us, where the average income is triple my own. Besides feeling decidedly under dressed, I have felt overwhelmed by “doodles”. Oodles and oodles of misbehaving, untrained doodles in pretty pink harnesses. The doodles are an accessory, like a purse or scarf. Don’t get me wrong, I have doodle loving, responsible owner friends, who adore their curly buddies, but … The plethora of doodles is a direct response to trends. Anyone with a male, intact poodle could be rolling in cash. In fact, maybe the town’s average income is bolstered by doodle whelping. Ok I digress. That said, like any other animals bred for trends and money, quantity overrides quality. Perhaps a halt in ownership and breeding will stop the irresponsible overproduction of these xl bullies, trends will change, and respectable breeders can focus on temperament and confirmation, and the breed will return better for it.

Your thought process is much like mine, but trouble is, it's all common sense. Sadly lacking by the majority.
Trends are the downfall of many a good dog (or breed). The majority of all dog owners seem to have no interest in training at all, like you say, their pet is an accessory to go with their lifestyle.

 

[Ukesox]

Doodles of all shapes & sizes seem to be dogs of choice in many parts of England too. I always chuckle when I think that they are really just (expensive) designer mongrels. My next dog will be a Doberpoo (not)

 

[Oh Little Oji]

There's already one: The Doodleman Pinscher.

Doodles of all shapes & sizes seem to be dogs of choice in many parts of England too. I always chuckle when I think that they are really just (expensive) designer mongrels. My next dog will be a Doberpoo (not)