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Pressure collar

Discussion in 'Products & Equipment' started by Nutz, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    So I was at the local outdoor flea market near Johannesburg SA on Saturday and I bought this from a stall holder, if only to prevent it being put on some poor dog, because it "looks so cool"

    It's a genuine Sprenger heavy duty one......

    Now here is the thing. I'm led to believe that they are quite popular in the States, and have seen a number of pics from the States with thes collars on....

    My PERSONAL opinion is that it should only be used by competent people or under competent supervision to deal with specific problems

    Your views pressure collar sprenger orig R350 collect.jpg

     
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  2. Panama

    Panama Hot Topics Subscriber

    A great tool when applied & used properly. Designed to pinch (cause pressure) not puncture and usually creates a self-correction. There are ugly stories of vets having to remove embedded prongs, but likely from someone with a dog they shouldn't own using a TOOL they weren't educated about but thought it "looked cool".

    I often see dogs with one sitting at the base of the neck and the handler saying they don't work on his/her dog. It needs to ride high and kind of snug.

    An effective training tool as long as the handler is trained first!
     
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  3. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    You are correct both that they are very popular in the US and that they should be used very specifically as a training tool. Way, way more people instead use them as their dog's everyday primary collar. I see it all the time at outdoor markets, on walks – everywhere. So far, two of my dog walking clients have had a prong collar as their dog's everyday walking collar. I'm a bit embarrassed to be seen going for a walk with them, but I do what the owners wish.
     
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  4. Doberman Gang

    Doberman Gang Hot Topics Subscriber

    Best and safest training collar out there.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  5. Doberman Gang

    Doberman Gang Hot Topics Subscriber

    Watch this it explains this collar perfectly.
     
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  6. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Jr Member

    Everyone should watch that video. It's not new info to me, but it explains it perfectly and with grace, especially dealing with the common myths. It's so tiring having to defend oneself to John Q Public!
     
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  7. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    Agreed; they are very valuable training tools. Not to be used when your dog is tied out or working with a long lead. My dogs get EXCITED when they hear their prong collars jingle because it means we're going somewhere fun!
     
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  8. jazzies mum

    jazzies mum Notable member

    These collars are illegal to import into Australia, but not illegal to use. I have one for Jazz, (loopholes in ebay), and it really changed her attitude! The only time she ever had a hard correction was one she gave herself by lunging after something. Now we do all our work in her flat leather collar and only use the prong collar when we are going to the markets, where there are usually lots of dogs, many with no manners to speak of. If she stays calm and under control then it stops any issues. End goal is to not need it at all, but it will always be in the kit to use if needed. She also gets really happy when she hears it because she loves going to the markets!!! :thumbsup:
     
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  9. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Interesting, yet here in SA, <no names no backpack> one of the biggest and most reputable dog training facilities refuse to even be associated with it.... Undoubtedly, they have their reasons, And that's why I don't particularly care for the bigger, more established training facilities.... And that goes back to the 1980's.

    Had a forum debate with them... My point being a dog's training curriculem should be focused on what the handler's final objectives are, and not necessarily thast of the facility. By way of example, unless the objective is to have a dog whose final outcome is to be ring / show / competetion level, what practicle use is it to train the dog the "stand" if the final objective of the dog is to be good in basic obedience and well socalised in public? Why even go there? focus what's relavent and ditch the rest....
    Pass the dog up the way based on what the handler has pre-determined.... You can alway's add a new skill if the dog's so inclined but it's extra not "core" skills training

    In my opinion, it will greatly enhance the sense of achievement, reduce the inevetable frustrations and lead to a much more relaxed dog / handler relationship....

    Their only input is that it helps when the dog goes tot he vet and for grooming...........

    I get the sense, that in order to maintain their particular program, they are solidly ridged in what the must be mastered before promoting through the various levels in order to achieve a particular "standard" <own agenda thing, look how good dogs from OUR facility are>.....

    Anyhow, Grumble, who is now a few day's shy (05-05-2018) of her first birthday, is shaping up nicely, pretty much done and dusted with homeing training, and will start formal obedience shortly, she is dso settled she needs no more than her bog standard belt collar... never even needed to use the half choaker, never mind the full choaker.
     
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  10. Curing

    Curing Jr Member

    I've seen people put TAGS on them and I can't even bare to look.

    But I'm all about the prong, I think flat collars and choke chains are genuinely dangerous to work with if the dog pulls excessively. I work in a fursaver, walk in a prong, and tags go on a flat collar ;p
     
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  11. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    So here is my take.

    It’s such a complex discussion, covering leashes / collars / techniques / terminology <jerk VS pull> and so on, but here is the principal....... well my principal............

    The over-riding consideration is the health of the dog. Regards this discussion, I’m focusing on the dog’s trachea. The handler MUST always bear this in mind.

    Depending on the dog, it’s an escalation of tools.

    First prize is NO LEAD!

    Beginning at the belt collar <for dogs that don’t pull> and a gentle tug is sufficient to correct

    Next up is a half choker. The half choker is set to just tighten without creating any pressure, and the correction is a quick jerk & quick release

    Next up is the full choker. This needs to be put on the right way around. The correction is a jerk and immediate release. In time the dog, will “tune into” the sound of the ring slipping up the loops and self correct before the choker tightens....

    Next up is a pressure collar... The correction is that the dog must self correct! Therefore a loose lead (slight loop in the lead & and attached at the handler side of the neck, not the top or bottom).

    But the dog need to first be introduced to the device through a series of exercises in a tightly controlled environment where there are no other dogs / distractions and the goal of eye contact and knowing where it must be need to be achieved...

    So as the dog becomes more and more correct, I advocate going down the scale all the way back to NO LEAD! And just a belt / identification collar...

    Your thoughts?
     
  12. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber


    IMHO it's ALL about the dog. A good trainer doesn't use one size fits all training techniques, they figure out what works for each dog. Just a couple of examples what what I'm talking about is I wouldn't have gotten any where with Drake using food as a reward, now bring out a tug or ball on a rope, and he would walk over fire for you. My Greta was not that interested in toys, but give her a treat and she would heel to the moon and back. Rumor on the other hand is waaaaaaay to food motivated. I learned quick that food was not a good idea with her. Besides she needed to learn to ignore food because she is my service dog. She does like a good toy but what works best for her is simple praise. A little excitement from me and she is happy to do anything I ask. Rue has never had a prong collar on. My Chaos came to me already trained so I simply reinforced what he already knew.

    I do think a prong collar is a GREAT tool when used correctly but it can easily become a crutch. IMO, it's a big problem when you allow yourself to become dependent on the prong. If that happens, you haven't trained your dog, you have simply learned to control him. :nono: Not the goal, but that control fools people into thinking they have a trained dog.
     
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  13. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Exactly! and that's EXACTLY why I advocate, once the dog is correct, go back down the scale to no lead....
     
  14. Doberman Gang

    Doberman Gang Hot Topics Subscriber

    My dogs will most all ways wear there fursaver, prong collar and ecollar during training. Hard to correct mistakes if you don’t have the tools in place. Exception would be prep just before a trial. But after competition is over, it is back to all three again.

    For me it depends on age of dog and hardness of dog.

    Puppies I always just use a flat collar.

    Once dog is older I use the fursaver as a cue we are starting work, then prong and/or e-collar goes on.

    Never use choke chain, to mevithus the most dangerous collar that will cause the most damage.

    The martingale is also a great collar but have only used them a few times, good for softer dogs. I do recommend them to people in my class, it gives a bit more of a correction than a flat collar and safer on the neck than a flat collar.
     
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  15. Atingles10

    Atingles10 Member

    Our boy is a BIG puller in excitable situations, aka crowds, pet stores, parks, and the prong collar is very helpful. We have tried everything else, he has a flat collar, martengale collar, harness, we've tried the gentle leader and honestly in the very distracting areas the prong collar is best. If we used either the flat or martengale collar he will pull to the point that he is gagging and gasping for air. With the prong collar, worn correctly of course up high, he is a completely different dog. We don't even have to give corrections he just knows that when it's on, he doesn't pull or try it because if he even pulls a little bit the smallest amount of tightening, not even a correction is enough. We have never even had to "correct " him with it.

    All this being said he is just coming into 10 months of age and we are in training currently. Our goal is to not need it one day but until that day comes we utilize it as a tool. I truly believe he is at more risk to doing damage when he aggressively pulls on a flat collar than being in a prong collar where he doesn't even attempt to pull.
     
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  16. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    I have a different opinion of the full choker. It’s a matter of technique.

    It’s meant to be, a short sharp jerk and quick release. <choke against neck & immediately fully open> opening the “choke” The objective is to get the dog to self correct on the sound of the loop running up the chain links, so do that <sharp jerk and quick release> a few times in conjunction with a stern verbal command until the dog is correct then praise. Watch the dog carefully, and if the dog auto corrects before the choker goes tight, then plenty praise, because the dog is cueing on the sond of the chain... Look for eye contact....and now would be a good time to give the treat / toy, if you are on treats or toy>

    Remember the dog's trachia?????

    The choker is NOT an instrument to correct pulling. Again, it’s mis use of this excellent tool that causes the dog harm.

    I’ve corrected bolting dogs using a 30ft longe line staked at the dog clipped to a harness... with the training leash still attached. handler dropps training leash, and stepps off, dog bolts, get’s a jolly good head of steam and comes up short... BUT the handler need to be on-top of things and chase up the dog and verbally admonish the dog in the strongest way... shouting’s good...

    Take the dog back to the peg and repeat... Odds on favourite problems solved....

    You might like to leave a short piece of leash clipped at all times for a while... just to remind the dog.

    Point is HARNESS not a choke collar.... Like a pressure collar, It's a powerful tool if used correctly, and a downright danger if not
     
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  17. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    I walked into my first agility class with the prong collar on Rubie and the trainer was IMMEDIATELY taken back. WE DON'T USE THOSE HERE. Fine. Agility is mostly about rewarding what was done correctly and ignoring what was done incorrectly. They're in crates when they're not running. it hasn't been an issue. I actually am very mindful though of not wearing my shirt associated with her training school while I'm out with Rubie on the prong collar. Heaven forbid someone congratulate me on how well trained my dog is and associate her training school with prong collar usage... (she uses a halti on her dog because that's pain free? Until they jerk their head and neck around?).

    In trials, I use a martingle collar attached to a tug leash. The best thing about trials is that all the other dogs there are so used to being around and ignoring other dogs, that they ignore Rubie. Rubie loves being ignored so she isn't pulling, lunging, or even really make any sort of fuss when being surrounded by 50 other dogs but we definitely had a learning curve in the beginning.

    You do what works best for you and your dog. Depending on what we're training, we use all sorts of methods and our dogs seem pretty stable. For the most part :woot2:
     
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  18. Atingles10

    Atingles10 Member

    In our obedience training we aren't allowed to use the prong collar either. They first class our dog was a maniac because he was so excited haha

    Its funny because when we go in public with the prong collar on everyone comments on how well behaved our guy is and the fact that we don't have to say or do anything he just behaves.....well no one said that the first day of class that's for sure haha. Fast forward to week 4 of classes and the trainer tells me how impressed she is with him and how good he is now. The learning curve was big for us haha. When we go out now he usually has 3 collars, flat collar with tags, martengale, and prong. His pulling dictates which one gets used.
     
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  19. Firestar Dobe

    Firestar Dobe $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    At our club prongs are allowed only if the Instructor feels it is necessary. Then the Instructor teaches the correct way to put it on and how to use it. The old fashioned "choke chain" collar is not allowed at our club because some dogs will still pull like crazy and possibly damage their trachea before they are properly trained. With the prong and proper instruction there is much less chance of this happening. We have found that the owners, even after instruction on use, have more of a tendency to pull steadily back with a choke collar, rather than snap and release, causing the dog to pull in the opposite direction and choking itself. With the prong, it seems they are more easily taught the "snap up" and release on the correction. As with anything else, proper knowledge of how to use a corrective collar is a must! I personally have used prongs on my girls and had great success. It is a matter of preference!
     
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  20. jazzies mum

    jazzies mum Notable member

    This is what I believe also......................yet it is the go to collar for dog training in Australia and the prong collar is frowned upon. :scratch:
     
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