PLEASE PLEASE HELP!! (Sorry for the super long post)

[Kristinnxnicole]

Hey Doberman friends and fam! hey
—-> IM SO SORRY FOR THE SUPER LONG POST BUT I NEED ALL YOUR HELP!! PLEASE!! wha<—-

Our 12 year old American female Doberman passed away last June. (WRECKED ME TO MY CORE).
Next Subject- I brought home a European Doberman Pup in April and she just this week turned 5 months old. I love her SO much, she is as sweet as can be, but SHE IS SO STRONG AND SO INSANE. I am very aware that European Dobermans are bigger built, and HIGH HIGH energy. I knew that before I even purchased her. But I need help! I have never had to put any of my dogs in professional training, or send them away for it. I usually do pretty well with them. THIS GIRL, on the other hand is literally out of control lol.
She is VERY smart as I have already taught her “sit, stay, watch me, center (she spins around and comes between my legs and sits and looks up at me), she will walk next to me with a treat in my hand, and when I stop and lift my hand up she knows to stop and sit. I’ve taught her leave it(with treats thrown in front of her until I release her), taught her turn around in a circle, and shake” ALL before she was 4 months old. HOWEVER, she JUMPS non stop, to greet us, when she wakes up, to go outside, when outside, to live on us and lick us, CONSTANTLY. She knocks our 4 year old down and she cries, She’s so strong she has buckled my knees from behind before and I’ve fallen. she jumps on ALL the counters no matter how much we yell, whoop her, say down you name it.. she just goes to the other side and jumps up again. She has taken food off our plates, she is REALLY rough with our 7 year old yorkiepoo and won’t stop even when he is exhausted and doesn’t want to play anymore. Takes his toys from him, they fight over bones even if they both have the exact same bone. She pees as she walks away or sits down and pees some when my husband just simply talks to her. And when he punishes her and reuses his voice at her, she DEFINITELY pees. (EVEN once on our brand new couch) She shoves her nose in everyone’s crotch even visitors over our house, the list goes on…

I NEED ALL YOUR HELP/THOUGHTS!!!! We have looked into professional training like send her away for 6 weeks with a pro trainer, but it’s like 3k and some are more. We’re desperate. We love her so much and I will NEVER get rid of her. But something has to give here. I try to take her out to exercise multiple times a day until she can’t breathe anymore…nothing helps.

BEFORE having to resort to super expensive training… what are your thoughts on an E-Collar? Have you used one? Had success? Is she too young still? Is she too crack head-ish or a pup and needs more? Blehh

I also REALLY want to train her to walk without a leash RIGHT NEXT TO ME and never run off or leave my side unless I tell her she can. Of course this comes with time and the other stuff needs to come first but…

HELP ME!!!!!

 

[Rits]

Hi, it sounds like you have a very naughty girl that hasn't been taught boundaries.

pees some when my husband just simply talks to her. And when he punishes her and reuses his voice at her, she DEFINITELY pees.

First off, on the possibly submissive peeing, your husband should probably stop yelling at her or punishing her. Usually, this just causes confusion and confidence issues. And typically when we catch them being naughty, it is after the deed has already been done. Dogs think in the moment so getting upset with them for counter surfing after the fact is too late. The timing for discipline would be literally as she's staring at the counter, or if she pops up on her hind end. Before she acts, not during or after.

she jumps on ALL the counters no matter how much we yell, whoop her, say down you name it..

Also, stop hitting her as a discipline. Physical discipline by our hand is really old school and there are better ways to fairly communicate with our dogs. This breed is handler sensitive and hitting just destroys trust between you. Leave her on a leash or have a short pull tab on a prong collar and pop the leash instead BEFORE she surfs. Keep all food out of reach and off the counter. You need to be proactive too since you know she surfs, keep all enticing things away so she cannot self reward. Everytime something is left on the counter and she gets it is building reinforcement for that behavior.

She pees as she walks away or sits down

Make sure she doesn't have a UTI. Is she intact? Spay/early spay can cause incontinence.

Takes his toys from him, they fight over bones even if they both have the exact same bone.

Either correct her or give them separate bones while separated like in their own crates. Otherwise keep toys completely picked up if you cannot keep eyes on her to correct and only give when you can.

HOWEVER, she JUMPS non stop, to greet us, when she wakes up, to go outside, when outside, to live on us and lick us, CONSTANTLY.

Anytime you interact with her make sure you wait her out and do not give her attention when jumping. Reward the moment she puts all 4 on the floor. If she jumps or goes to jump on your daughter, instantly correct her (pull tab on collar). Keep building high value for 4 feet on the floor. Make this more desirable than jumping!

I try to take her out to exercise multiple times a day until she can’t breathe anymore…nothing helps.

You are actually building her stamina by doing that and making her that much harder for yourself to tire for the next day! Training training training. Mental games is far more tiring, takes less time, you build a bond with your dog and have a better behaved dog in the end! If you are too tired for training look into giving her something enriching like a licki mat, snuffle mat, treat dispensing puzzle/toy or hide some treats around the house for her to sniff out. Have her in a down stay while you hide the treats then release her to "find it!" Bam, training without much effort!

what are your thoughts on an E-Collar? Have you used one? Had success? Is she too young still? Is she too crack head-ish or a pup and needs more? Blehh

She's too young. She needs to learn what she should be doing first by rewarding good behavior and you building that bond training her. You cannot add more discipline when it sounds like she doesn't understand in the first place. This will only add to the confusion and frustration. Have her work to earn her food. Start hand feeding her kibble. If you don't have much time just take a handful of her kibble from her meal daily and make her work for it for a 5 min session of training. I bet you will find her a lot more responsive and attentive to you in short time. I'd also add some structure like sitting before going through doors (like every time in/out from potty), waiting for a release word to break that sit, going to a placemat waiting for her food, when you are cooking etc. It's ok for her to have a time out occasionally to relax in her kennel.

Have some of her kibble on hand and reward the behaviors you want to see! If she relaxes and lays down on her own, calmly walk over "good girl" and give her a piece or two of kibble. Do this every time you see it. Sitting in the kitchen vs jumping on the counter, "yes", kibble. You walk in the door and she keeps her feet on the ground? Good girl! Place reward on the floor.

I'd find a good obedience class. You can spend thousands on training but the training is only is as good as the person handling the dog. If you aren't trained in what to do for these situations it won't be much help! She could be an angel for someone else that is firm, fair and has shown her what they want but then back to testing boundaries with you and your family. Teaching the dog what to do is the easy part. Teaching the humans what to do is a lot harder but way more valuable.

 

[Kristinnxnicole]

@Rits Thank you for all the wonderful tips and words of advice. When i said whoop, I didnt mean I did it with my hand. We have a rolled up magazine we use when we absolutelt have to.

 

[Doberman Gang]

@Rits Thank you for all the wonderful tips and words of advice. When i said whoop, I didnt mean I did it with my hand. We have a rolled up magazine we use when we absolutelt have to.

That is not the way to correct behavior. Corrections should be made with a leash correction of some kind or just removing something she wants. She is too young for an ecollar and must first be taught a clear picture of what you expect. Hitting her with anything, rolled up magazine, newspaper your hand teaches her physical violence is ok. When she gets older and really tests you that violence might result in her fighting back. She is young be patient and teach her. If you don’t know how to do it correctly then take a class in a group setting so she learns manors around people and other dogs. Board train doesn’t teach you how to handle her.

 

[LifeofRubie]

All great advice, so far!

It's important to remember she's still very young and still learning. Being clear in your expectations and firm, fair, and consistent in reward and discipline is important. I'm not sure a board and train is necessary as she doesn't sound out of control and unmanageable (to me, but I'm sure it feels different for your family because you're in the thick of it!). And, to be fair, we just had a neighbor send their German Shepherd out for 3 weeks of training and we still see them struggle with her because of what they're doing. You don't just send a dog out for a 3 week training session and get a whole different dog back.

as much as exercise and stimulation are important, so is downtime. Does she have a crate or area she can go into to decompress? Not as punishment and it should be a space she happily enters. Just like toddlers, they can get overstimulated and tired and undesirable behavior can manifest.

I would ask visitors to completely ignore her when they first arrive. If she jumps or starts goosing, have them turn away from her. Once she relaxes and settles, calm interactions should be ok, unless she starts to get overly excited again, then ignore. As @Rits said, same goes for family members. If you're coming home from something, it's hard not to do the WE'RE HOME YAY WE MISSED YOU dance but it's wildly important. My own dogs are 5 and 7, we've had them since puppyhood, and we still don't get too excited when we come home until they've had a second to process (and as a childless millennial, getting home to my dogs from a social situation is priority #1 ).

From all the other stuff she's learned, she seems very capable and willing! She may just be getting mixed signals (when she jumps, people get overly excited and raise their voices or jump around; when accidently knocking over your 4 year old, and the crying ensures, that might be getting her riled up, etc., which might be rewarding to her). And, from all her other skills, it seems like she works well with reward for desirable behavior; isolating and redirecting the undesirable is definitely more challenging but certainly achievable!

 

[Ravenbird]

My puppy went through a lot of what you describe. Owning previous Dobermans, this completely blew me away, I was not expecting the level of crazy energy that came with my pup. I was treating her like my previous Dobermans who were angels their whole life. The most productive thing I did was have a 6 foot leash on her anytime she was loose in the house. Half the time the end of it was in my hand or tied to me. She had zero chance of doing anything without my supervision. I had a treat pouch with half her breakfast kibble in it. Good things/behavior/training always got rewarded. Staring at the cat, trying to pounce on the elder dog etc. earned her a leash pop, paired with NO. One and done, no yelling. A portable x-pen went from room to room if I couldn't keep a leash on me, she'd be in the pen. Preventing bad behavior practice is GOLD. A prong collar (at about 4 - 5 months) helped on outside excursions. An e-collar came in at about 8 or 9 months when she knew all her basic obedience but was ignoring me anyway, the puppy HAS to know why the stimulation happens or you will create new problems. Good group lessons with same age puppies is extremely valuable. Lower drive, sweet puppies can do petsmart type classes, but not your puppy. If you can, find a trainer who has experience with higher drive dogs, preferably working breeds. You will be involved and build a tighter bond. Board and train is a last resort in my opinion, and takes a crash course on your part to pick up where the trainer leaves off. Weekly lessons with a trainer & you & puppy - you all learn together and trainer can correct YOU as you make mistakes in handling.

I'll go back & re-read, but does she have a crate? Crate all night? Furniture is another big no in my opinion. My puppy was never allowed on any furniture until about a year old, and to this day (going on 4) the only furniture she can be on is my bed.

Read through a bunch of these stories in this training and behavior section. You will find you are far from alone. You'll also see many of the same answers, some that are specific to your puppy too. As already said, train, train, train is more productive than exercise, exercise, exercise!

Keep us posted with updates, more questions and more pictures! She's a beauty!

 

[Cferg]

Once you gain more control over her and her obedience becomes reliable. You will grow to appreciate the difficulties a dog like this brings. “Being able to control the uncontrollable” is what it will feel like when you look at where you started.

I have a similar dog and I love it. I will never go back to a low drive dog. In fact I barely understand why people have and keep the average type dogs. When people tell me they love their dogs so much while describing their dogs to me. I could boil the conversation down to “I feed my dog it’s food, it poops in my backyard and it lays around our house” hahahaha but they love them so much. To each their own

 

[Kaiser2016]

brought home a European Doberman Pup

I really could have stopped reading right here

 

[JanS]

I don't have anything to add to what has already been said, but I would look around for a trainer who understands this breed and get together with him/her so they can show you what to do in different situations. I don't call our trainers "our trainers" for no reason. I can hand a dog over to them and they'll immediately turn into a well behaved dog but it's me who needs the training.

 

[Cranekc35]

Wow! Such great advice above!!! I love this group!!

My boy is half American/half Euro, so I understand the endless energy. What I have learned through this group is you have to find the balance between physical and mental. As stated above, too much physical, you will build the endurance - they can go all day if you let them. What I found worked for my boy was doing dual physical and mental. I use 2 things outside - a tug toy and the flirt pole. I incorporate obedience training with the physical playing with each. HE LOVES IT! I will also play "find it" outside with his favorite tug toy. Everyone kept telling me to make the training "fun" and it took me a while to find what worked for him.

I also started hand feeding his meal through obedience training, as stated above, which is great at building a better bond. I work the "focus" exercises with him daily, another mental stimulating exercise. I too used a prong collar with a leash or collar tab for correcting him when he jumped, nipped or grabbed something he shouldn't have in the home. The "leave it" command has also worked like a charm in both inside and outside. I do this exercise with him daily him and it has paid off because we were in the backyard training just the other day and all of a sudden his nose went up in the air and immediately ran to the fence. I didn't have my glasses on, but saw something black on the ground that he was sniffing. I went up to see and it was a dead crow. I immediately told him to leave it and command him to follow me away from it. We continued our training session and he never went back to it I was extremely impressed! LOL (My husband moved the crow when he came home a few minutes later.) I can leave my shoes out and he won't touch them anymore after I told him to leave it, etc.

The place command has been my saving grace when I need to cook, clean, eat, etc. Staying on place is more exhausting than running around the yard all day. I also fill hollow marrow bones with peanut butter and frozen topples with yogurt, etc. for downtime as well. Or giving her something to chew. I buy real natural beef hide rolls from Farm Hounds that last for days! Long-Lasting Natural Beef Hide Rolls

You can also start teaching "Sit on the Dog" Exercise. I do this with Prince every evening or twice a day sometimes on the weekend. Best thing I ever did. The Sit on the Dog Exercise • Canine Life Skills

The MOST IMPORTANT thing that I had to learn was to stay calm and assertive while handling him. I realized that when I would yell, etc., he could see that I was out of control. All these dogs are looking for is a leader. If you aren't going to be that leader, then they will feel the need to take over. Once I found my "Zen" and started to correct without being harsh or loud, he started to respect me and listen. They are just like children looking for love, guidance and structure.

Hope this helps in some way! Best of luck to you.

 

[Ravenbird]

All these dogs are looking for is a leader. If you aren't going to be that leader, then they will feel the need to take over. Once I found my "Zen" and started to correct without being harsh or loud, he started to respect me and listen. They are just like children looking for love, guidance and structure.

^^^This^^^

 

[jazzies mum]

The MOST IMPORTANT thing that I had to learn was to stay calm and assertive while handling him. I realized that when I would yell, etc., he could see that I was out of control. All these dogs are looking for is a leader. If you aren't going to be that leader, then they will feel the need to take over. Once I found my "Zen" and started to correct without being harsh or loud, he started to respect me and listen. They are just like children looking for love, guidance and structure.

Absolutely! This was my most important lesson when dealing with the Dobe personality!

 

[Cranekc35]

After our session yesterday afternoon! Exhausted physically and mentally

 

[Ravenbird]

I have a similar dog and I love it. I will never go back to a low drive dog. In fact I barely understand why people have and keep the average type dogs. When people tell me they love their dogs so much while describing their dogs to me. I could boil the conversation down to “I feed my dog it’s food, it poops in my backyard and it lays around our house” hahahaha but they love them so much. To each their own

Because "to each their own" is what it's all about. I wouldn't trade my girl for anything, and like you say, once you get them trained and a little maturity to settle them a bit, you get use to the drive and intensity and hard to imagine having a quieter dog. But it really isn't for everyone and it takes a ton of training and dedication. To me, some of these puppies are really too much for John Q Public. How many owners are just overwhelmed and get rid of them? Especially imports, no sending back to the breeders. They absolutely are not easy to raise and they just don't train & respond like what I call a "normal" Doberman. Until a couple of years ago I didn't realize the division of Doberman temperament and changes that have taken place in the last 20 years.

 

[Kswoodssue]

After experiencing our 3/4 euro at that age, I can specifically understand your concern for the kids. They are very strong and play hard and rough. The rougher you respond to a behavior, the rougher their response. Sasha’s eyes would glaze over and you knew she was responding to that inner voice telling her to do what she was bred to do. I learned to step toward her when she jumped. Instinctively she wants you to pull away and be prey. Prey would fight and make noise. Don’t be prey. The same happens when you instinctively protect the kids. She gets the reaction she wants, ie you jump or yell or respond physically. My suggestion is you never give her the opportunity to interact with the kids unless she is in a sit or a down. I would not let her off leash when they are in the room. Have multiple times a day to crate her for a nap, and crate her at 8 or 9 pm for the night. Prong collar was a game changer for us, as is ecollar. They are smart. Commands are easy. Controlling instinctual behavior takes time. At 16 months, we adore our girl, she seldom jumps, and we still need the prong collar in public and sometimes need ecollar in the house when she decides to regress. Good luck. This too shall pass.

 

[Kswoodssue]

Wow! Such great advice above!!! I love this group!!

My boy is half American/half Euro, so I understand the endless energy. What I have learned through this group is you have to find the balance between physical and mental. As stated above, too much physical, you will build the endurance - they can go all day if you let them. What I found worked for my boy was doing dual physical and mental. I use 2 things outside - a tug toy and the flirt pole. I incorporate obedience training with the physical playing with each. HE LOVES IT! I will also play "find it" outside with his favorite tug toy. Everyone kept telling me to make the training "fun" and it took me a while to find what worked for him.

I also started hand feeding his meal through obedience training, as stated above, which is great at building a better bond. I work the "focus" exercises with him daily, another mental stimulating exercise. I too used a prong collar with a leash or collar tab for correcting him when he jumped, nipped or grabbed something he shouldn't have in the home. The "leave it" command has also worked like a charm in both inside and outside. I do this exercise with him daily him and it has paid off because we were in the backyard training just the other day and all of a sudden his nose went up in the air and immediately ran to the fence. I didn't have my glasses on, but saw something black on the ground that he was sniffing. I went up to see and it was a dead crow. I immediately told him to leave it and command him to follow me away from it. We continued our training session and he never went back to it I was extremely impressed! LOL (My husband moved the crow when he came home a few minutes later.) I can leave my shoes out and he won't touch them anymore after I told him to leave it, etc.

The place command has been my saving grace when I need to cook, clean, eat, etc. Staying on place is more exhausting than running around the yard all day. I also fill hollow marrow bones with peanut butter and frozen topples with yogurt, etc. for downtime as well. Or giving her something to chew. I buy real natural beef hide rolls from Farm Hounds that last for days! Long-Lasting Natural Beef Hide Rolls

You can also start teaching "Sit on the Dog" Exercise. I do this with Prince every evening or twice a day sometimes on the weekend. Best thing I ever did. The Sit on the Dog Exercise • Canine Life Skills

The MOST IMPORTANT thing that I had to learn was to stay calm and assertive while handling him. I realized that when I would yell, etc., he could see that I was out of control. All these dogs are looking for is a leader. If you aren't going to be that leader, then they will feel the need to take over. Once I found my "Zen" and started to correct without being harsh or loud, he started to respect me and listen. They are just like children looking for love, guidance and structure.

Hope this helps in some way! Best of luck to you.

Lol “leave it” works for incessant licking too, thank goodness!

 

[Kaiser2016]

Lol “leave it” works for incessant licking too, thank goodness!

Such a versatile command, we use it a lot. “Leave it” for bothering the cat, for barking at the neighbor dog, for food that falls on the floor, I could go on!

 

[DracoDobie]

I don't have much to add apart from what @Rits said. She sounds like a naughty girl with little boundaries, and so much energy. You are building up her endurance by tiring her out that much physically.
Just make sure she's fulfilled both physically and mentally. We started with the e-collar at 10 months old, it's been a game changer, just gotta make sure you use it properly. Be patient and consistent with boundaries, it does get better!