Obedience Tidbits from an AKC Judge

Read a little through the novice portion and some tidbits; these are pretty helpful for one looking to compete in obedience! @Ravenbird I think you will quite like this especially.
The Dog Talk one on Novice I had already found and saved - :smile: great minds must search the same things! I'll go through theses and see what else I can find because it looks like lots of tidbits!!!
 
Found a gem here!

@Rits or @obbanner or anyone else...
Screenshot of judges score sheet - I'm going to guess, but if you can, please confirm/correct or fill in what I don't know...
L F S C W = Lagging? Forging? S - ? Crowding? W?

Handler - Fast NA? BA? Slow ND? NB? PS? NS? PS? NS? - what do these mean?! I'll assume Fast & Slow refer to the change of pace and the initials refer to how it went? Is Head or Shoulder Motion like if you give a silent (secret) extra command?

Red Ink = NQ? on stand for exam & recall?

Front: - NF - No Front? PS -? NS-? Out ? T ?
Finish: - NF - No Finish? PS ? NS ?

THANK YOU!




Screen Shot 2023-10-29 at 6.56.03 AM.webp
 
Thanks for sharing, lots of good information there! We are starting rally class in two weeks, but maybe one day we can get into competition obedience. We shall see! 🤞🏻
 
Found a gem here!

@Rits or @obbanner or anyone else...
Screenshot of judges score sheet - I'm going to guess, but if you can, please confirm/correct or fill in what I don't know...
L F S C W = Lagging? Forging? S - ? Crowding? W?

Handler - Fast NA? BA? Slow ND? NB? PS? NS? PS? NS? - what do these mean?! I'll assume Fast & Slow refer to the change of pace and the initials refer to how it went? Is Head or Shoulder Motion like if you give a silent (secret) extra command?

Red Ink = NQ? on stand for exam & recall?

Front: - NF - No Front? PS -? NS-? Out ? T ?
Finish: - NF - No Finish? PS ? NS ?

THANK YOU!




View attachment 139527
It's interesting trying to decipher the codes. I never saw a worksheet like this. Here's my thoughts. Question marks are a wild guess on my part or don't know. Yes, the red appears to be NQs.

Heel and Figure 8 - Lag, Forge, Slow?, Crooked?, Wide - Hand and Arm I assume are positioned legally. I'm too familiar with military turn - I was very proud of Inky then found out that was a deduction in the ring.

Recall - EC is Extra Command (I didn't know you could give an EC to stay), Front: NF=No Front, PS=Position, NS=No Stay (in front)?, T=?
Finish: NF=No Finish, PS=Position, NS=No Stay (in heel)

Sit / Stay - HP=Handler Position
 
I have to check the dates of the articles because the AKC changes regulations every couple years
Yeah, I wish each article was dated. I saw a couple of things which are no longer done. But overall, tons of info and from the judges view on lots of it, so really good info!

I never saw a worksheet like this.
The other reason I was wondering how old some of it is, but again, much of it is timeless for learning what to expect as a competitor.

Thanks for your input as always!
 
I just realized NS for Recall Front could be No Sit.
:thumbsup2: And it could be for the finish too!!! a dog that goes to finish, but doesn't sit?

The "T" was baffling me, but then I was looking at it, the shape of the "T" and maybe that represents a straight front? But then that would be repeating PS if it's Position, like you suggested... 🤷‍♀️

Heel and Figure 8 - Lag, Forge, Slow?, Crooked?, Wide
Wondering what would be difference between Lag and Slow... ?
EC is Extra Command (I didn't know you could give an EC to stay),
I would assume if you started to leave the dog and it moved to come with you, you'd repeat your stay command, so EC = points off?
 
Wondering what would be difference between Lag and Slow... ?
I think slow would be the handler and lag would be the dog in heel. Or slow could be slow to sit. Yes EC is points off.

Make sure to read the rules and regulations, as boring as it is. Its really helpful to know where theres room to take points, to possibly reinforce what you've trained vs letting the dog simply not do what you asked, and still Q over not knowing what to do in a situation should your dog not perform perfectly (which is the likely scenario in a trial!)
 
:thumbsup2: And it could be for the finish too!!! a dog that goes to finish, but doesn't sit?

The "T" was baffling me, but then I was looking at it, the shape of the "T" and maybe that represents a straight front? But then that would be repeating PS if it's Position, like you suggested... 🤷‍♀️


Wondering what would be difference between Lag and Slow... ?

I would assume if you started to leave the dog and it moved to come with you, you'd repeat your stay command, so EC = points off?
I read the regulations for Recall and the dog is required to sit close enough the handler can touch it's head, so I wonder if the T is for Touch.

Lag could be positioning slightly behind the handler but at same pace, and slow would be noticeably behind the handler such that the handler has to adjust pace.
 
Make sure to read the rules and regulations, as boring as it is. Its really helpful to know where theres room to take points, to possibly reinforce what you've trained vs letting the dog simply not do what you asked, and still Q over not knowing what to do in a situation should your dog not perform perfectly (which is the likely scenario in a trial!)
I read them about a year ago, thinking I'd do this, but definitely need to read through again. Especially knowing when a EC might cost a couple of points but save the total points.

Like - and I have worked on this forever, but obviously don't know how to fix it - the finish. She goes instantly without hesitation to heel position but lands a little crooked or out a bit. If I barely wiggle my left leg, she will scooch over to perfect position. I know that's an extra command and I know a judge could see it, so in the rules I'll have to find if there are more points off for sitting crooked or more points off for EC. Because judging is such a personal opinion type thing on top of the rules, maybe one would be impressed that Asha corrected herself beautifully and one might be disgusted that I tried to use a subtle EC. LOL. What I really need to know is why won't she self correct without me asking her to. :rofl:
 
I know that's an extra command and I know a judge could see it, so in the rules I'll have to find if there are more points off for sitting crooked or more points off for EC.
Section 11. Recall, Scoring:
A dog must receive a non-qualifying(NQ) score if it is given an additional command and/or signal to stay, if itfails to come on the first command or signal, if it moves from the place itwas left before being called or signaled to come, or if it does not sit closeenough to its handler so that the handler could touch its head withoutexcessive bending, stretching or moving either foot.

Substantial deductions will be made for a handler’s extra command or signal to sit or finish and for a dog that fails to remain sitting and either stands or lies down, fails to come at a brisk trot or gallop, fails to sit in front, or fails to finish or sit at heel.

Minor or substantial deductions will be made for slow or poor sits, for finishes that are not prompt or smart, for touching the handler on coming in or while finishing, and for sitting between the handler’s feet.


Have you tried using a platform (only as wide as her) and raising your qualifications for finish position before rewarding? Ripley would front crooked... I had to work and work and work at it to get her to sit straight. She still occasionally does without the platform but maybe once in a blue moon. I am sure I will have to continue to reinforce correct position before we trial again. If she doesn't sit straight I just say "oops! try again!" and set her back up. If she still sits crooked, the platform comes back out to help her. I try not to ever let her fail more than twice. I will mix in sit at front and running between my legs to keep her guessing so she comes full force into me not knowing which I'll ask.

I'm curious if Asha would sit straight if she did an around finish vs flip finish? Ripley knows both too but I use around for obedience and flip we use in rally for left finish. Might be something worth trying!
 
I agree with using a platform. I use it to teach straight sits when heeling by walking up to it and stopping so he has to sit on the platform and I use it for fronts.

I also found the platform useful for teaching SEND. Since AJ already knew how to sit on the platform, it wasn't at all hard to teach him to go across the ring and sit on the platform.
 
Have you tried using a platform (only as wide as her) and raising your qualifications for finish position before rewarding? Ripley would front crooked... I had to work and work and work at it to get her to sit straight. She still occasionally does without the platform but maybe once in a blue moon. I am sure I will have to continue to reinforce correct position before we trial again. If she doesn't sit straight I just say "oops! try again!" and set her back up. If she still sits crooked, the platform comes back out to help her. I try not to ever let her fail more than twice. I will mix in sit at front and running between my legs to keep her guessing so she comes full force into me not knowing which I'll ask.

I'm curious if Asha would sit straight if she did an around finish vs flip finish? Ripley knows both too but I use around for obedience and flip we use in rally for left finish. Might be something worth trying!
It's so funny (not), that when I picked up Asha at the breeders, we were talking about training and she advised me not to start the flip finish because it's so hard to get them to be consistently straight. Did I listen? noooooo. 🙄

But here we are. She will do a go-around finish, but she wants to do the flip, and at this point I feel like I would be using too much hand motion and movement to do the go-around. She'll do the flip with one word and me not moving. Not sure how to do a smooth flip with a platform, I guess the idea would be to train the position with a go around to the platform and then hope the position sticks on the flip?
I try to never reward at the crooked sit, or at least not consciously. I'm sure I have when not doing strictly training though, and that intermittent reward at the wrong time could very well be the problem... Since deciding to trial again, I reward only after she corrects her position. I'll work on it and get the mirror back out to help watch myself.

From the Judges portion, page 120:
Recall Exercises. To have both dog and handler under constant observation in these exercises, a judge should take a position in line and slightly to the rear of the dog, facing the handler but at an adequate distance to one side.
This is a foundation exercise and governs the faults and behavior of a dog in all exercises where the dog is moving toward the handler.
Finishes are required to be executed promptly, smartly, and straight. This applies to faults in all exercises where the dog returns to heel position. The finish is not a principal part of any exercise. Therefore, failure to finish or extra commands or signals to finish do not require a non-qualifying (NQ) score for any exercise.
The judge should never ask the handler to touch the dog or otherwise assist the judge in making a decision. If, in the judge’s opinion, the dog is not close enough to the handler, it must receive a non-qualifying (NQ) score.

I agree with using a platform. I use it to teach straight sits when heeling by walking up to it and stopping so he has to sit on the platform and I use it for fronts.

I also found the platform useful for teaching SEND. Since AJ already knew how to sit on the platform, it wasn't at all hard to teach him to go across the ring and sit on the platform.
Thanks for the tips. I don't have a platform, but I'll see what I can drum up.

What about this statement from the rules? Does it not have to be 2 different judges for the 3 Q's like Rally? I have an option pending to enter 3 days in a row, but the judge is the same for all three.

Section 4. Companion Dog Title. The letters CD may be added after the name of each dog that has earned qualifying scores in Novice classes at three licensed or member obedience trials. That dog will receive a Companion Dog certificate from the AKC.
 
@obbanner - sorry, I meant to tag you on my videos last week, you didn't comment so I'm assuming you didn't see them:


Would love your input, if you have the time.
 
@obbanner - sorry, I meant to tag you on my videos last week, you didn't comment so I'm assuming you didn't see them:


Would love your input, if you have the time.
I think you're doing great! It appears the only thing would be minor crooked sits, but a judge won't ding you bad for them in Novice A because that's the type if thing that gets deductions in the upper B classes. It looks like you're on your way to at least a mid-190s score!

Yes, you need two judges. It used to be you needed a different judge for each leg, so it used to be the first question asked was "Who's judging?" If you can, I recommend entering all three trials. Even if you get 3Qs under one judge, it's good to get ring experience.
 
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What are the approximate measurements? I have scraps of wood! I like that it's good and narrow but long enough.
 
What are the approximate measurements? I have scraps of wood! I like that it's good and narrow but long enough.
Mine is 12" wide and 31" long. The long is good so I have flexibility when we stop on it when heeling and on the outrun, AJ can turn around on it. If I was going to make another, I would make it 11" because AJ can sit a bit crooked on the 12" platform.

There's no particular reason that I can remember that it's 31". I suspect that was the length of one of the pieces of scrap.
 

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