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Making the switch to Raw

Discussion in 'Doberman Nutritional Care' started by Viemarangelrock, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I’ve been iffing and arring about doing the switch for sometime now. Well, the time has come :D


    Tara’s been fed on a 5* kibble since we’ve had her (Eden holistic - original cuisine) BUT it’s grain free. With my daughter currently working in a raw feed pet pantry and with a healthy 10% discount on all feed and healthy treats. Plus the knowledge I’ve learnt about a potential dietary link between canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) and dogs eating certain grain-free pet food, I feel the time is now as I don’t wish to put her on a kibble with grain.

    So, I have a few questions for you who raw feed your dogs. Any input would be highly appreciated:)

    Would it be advisable to fast her before the switch (24hrs) and then start her new natural diet? Or slowly start adding raw food to her kibble, increasing the amount every day until it is 100% raw? Therefore, giving her stomach the time to adjust to the change.

    Any starting issues to look out for? Soft runny stools? Hot spots from itching? Bile? Diarrhoea? Just some I’m prepared :D

    I’ve worked out roughly she’ll need about 750g of raw a day (about 2%) spread over 2 meals. From there I’ll work out if that is too much or too little as we go along.

    Tara was a given a freebie pack of Lamb & Bone complete meatballs. I added just one small meatball to her meal last night and well, she went crazy for it :thumbsup:

    15C6E811-06AD-447E-AC58-701C4789A83D.jpeg AF24881E-D31C-4EF0-90A3-6D2A8AF36E20.jpeg 0811DA52-51F9-49AD-95FA-1F9392C94A37.jpeg

    I’ve decided to go with the brand ‘Natural instincts’ (pre-made complete) until I can get my head around the ingredients and ratios, amounts etc...

    Once I’ve got my head around it all I’d like to offer her 80% raw, lean-ish meat, of which a good 5 or so different proteins (lamb, beef, rabbit, pork, venison...) 20% grated raw vegetable (but not potato) some offal and from time to time add in the odd egg, spoon of cod liver oil, tin of pilchards, spoon of natural yogurt....

    So anything you have to offer, good books? Recipe ideas? I’m all ears lol
     
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  2. Ravenbird

    Ravenbird Member

    Good for you making the switch. I would switch gradually if it were me. Generally raw gives them a firmer stool, less stink and less size to it as well. Keep us posted on your progress. I'll be watching for others advice & comments.
     
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  3. CRDobe

    CRDobe Notable member

    When I fed raw, I switched cold turkey. No issues whatsoever, except a dog very excited at meal times!
     
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  4. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I would start with the morning meal being raw and evening meal being kibble. You don’t want to mix raw with kibble because the digestion rate is much slower with kibble. If raw is added to kibble the raw has longer to be in the system before being expelled exposing them to pathogens that normally wouldn’t be a problem with an all raw meal. Dogs have a short digestive tract that allows the raw to move through quickly preventing exposure time to salmonella, listeria etc. The body breaks down what they need and utilizes it quickly and the amount expelled is far less than with kibble. I bet once you are on raw for a short while you will see the poops are 1/3 the size of their kibble poops. Gut motility is a factor too. Some dogs have a slower gut motility than others.
    I truly think you, and Tara especially will love the raw diet.
     
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  5. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    That’s what I’m looking for. I want her to be excited for meal times at the minute she just saunters up to her bowl, in no rush. Mind you, I don’t think I would get excited if I ate dry cornflakes, twice a day, everyday.
     
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  6. Antman408

    Antman408 $ Forum Donor $

    Excited that you are switching to raw! I’d suggest doing a 24 hour fast then beginning to feed all raw. Trying to mix them would be a pain.

    Your doggo will probably have mud butt for a day or two then it will be small firm deer turds.

    Also @Tropicalbri's the digestion time was prove to be folk tales check this link out Digest this: kibble may actually digest faster than raw
     
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  7. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Yes this ^^ I remember now. I don’t want to be giving her any digestive distress. Thanks for the tip, Bri.
     
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  8. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    It all depends on the gut motility. Some dogs have a much slower gut motility which causes problems in digestion rates and in the ability to pass foreign objects.

    Edit: raw food has a lot of moisture which assists in faster digestion. You will notice that they may require less water intake on raw since they will be getting that with the raw consumption.


    Most dogs we do FBO surgery on have a considerably slower motility than the average dog.

    Thanks for the link and info.
     
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  9. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Great advice. Thanks @Antman408!

    Yes, I was only reading up about that yesterday. That kibble is too concentrated and too dry (less than 10% moisture compared to 70% moisture in a natural diet)
     
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  10. Antman408

    Antman408 $ Forum Donor $

    Edit: double post
     
  11. Antman408

    Antman408 $ Forum Donor $

    No problem! I thought the same thing, I did a lot of research into it over the week as I began to have kibble days (since I can’t source certain proteins as it’s not in season) In my boys food routine. So I came across that link.
     
  12. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    NO need to switch gradually. Finish off the kibble you have and dive right in! I would start with chicken thighs. Good balance of meat and bone. Less chance of loose poops. I have switched both and adult and a pup (8 wks) onto raw cold turkey starting with chicken thighs, no issues.
    IMO if you start playing around with kibble and raw together your going to end up with under digested bone in the stool. The PH level normally in a dog is like battery acid. When fed kibble it is considerably less. I would do one or the other period.

    ALSO, don't start feeding liver right away, give her a little time and start adding it in SLOWLY until you reach the proper amount. t
    CHECK all whole meats for sodium content, I feed nothing higher than 100 mg but prefer lower. You would be surprised at how much meat is injected with sodium! These last 2 things are to keep your girl from getting CANNON BUTT.
    There are alot of great informative raw feeding sites out there, here is one with meal plans as well as great info. Carnivorecarryout.com

    Tara will be dancing around squealing for her dinner, it's amazing!!
     
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  13. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I printed it out so Doc can read it and give his thoughts on it. He does support clients on feeding a raw diet but also wants them to be sure they are feeding nutritionally complete diets. He gives printed material to clients with how to prepare and feed a raw diet. I respect that in him as many vets adamantly discourage raw feeding. He is of the mindset that if it works well for your pet and it’s nutritionally balanced and the pet thrives on it then he is happy to assist any way he can.
     
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  14. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    I agree that the myth is busted but my understanding of the original myth would still have me concerned about mixing. I think it is the acidity of the stomach of a kibble fed dog becomes more alkaline with age whereas a raw fed dog has a way more acidic stomach. So I guess the age of the dog matters too. When we transitioned Kaiser he was 6 or 7 months old and I switched cold turkey. I was reliant on treat balls still so I did give kibble but only in the evening but reduced the amount greatly.

    The other concern I have with kibble is how much it swells inside the stomach. So for that reason too I would not mix raw and kibble. In fact when kibble feeding I like to soak the kibble in water before the dog eats it.

    Premade raw is a life saver when you're starting out! My concern with your raw package in the pic is the organs adds up to 30% which seems high to me - higher risk of poop explosion!

    I found this site to be very helpful. Simple, easy to follow explanations, before getting into all the finer details of the raw diet. Prey Model vs BARF: Raw Diets for Dogs Explained
     
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  15. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    The gut ph is different between raw and kibble that is why many have recommended the ACV in their food to maintain the correct ph of the gut.
     
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  16. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    AGREE! They love Liver but it's too rich for some stomachs. Even dehydrated liver treats are used sparingly.
     
  17. WiglWerm

    WiglWerm Hot Topics Subscriber

    FAT is also VERY important. Dogs use fat for fuel. Most recommend 25%.
     
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  18. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Kibble is much harder to digest. Because of the high amount of carbs. Dogs should not be fed the amounts of carbs (40-60%) that are in Kibble. Because of this their body organs and systems like the Pancreas and Liver have to work harder.
    There should not be more than 10% carbs in pet foods.
     
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  19. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Protein is used to help repair and build the body. Fat (good fats) is used for energy.
     
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  20. Viemarangelrock

    Viemarangelrock $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Thank you so much for your input, Lori. I’ll definitely check out that site, too.
     
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