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Learning a new language

Discussion in 'Doberman Talk and Discussions' started by Nutz, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Morning all...

    So After 17 weeks.....

    Grumble has spoken.... Got my first Woooo-woo-woo-woo-woo this weekend....

    So fine, now I've got to learn what that means in Doberspeak... Seems that that means it's another dog...

    Scruffy has very definate language.... A bird / dog / cat is a defined yap-yap-yap

    Something more note worthy and I get a yap-yap-yap interspersed with growling

    Get-up and be prepared cause this is real danger is a deeper (but less) yap with growling with a kind of breath-intake on full choke....

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  2. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    Has she started whining yet? Or boredom howling?
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  3. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Hi K no.... I think with the other 2 dogs, she has enough to keep her fully occupied, they seem to play quite a lot.
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  4. jazzies mum

    jazzies mum Notable member

    What about sighing and puffing when asked to do something she'd rather not?
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  5. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Morning J

    Now you’ve put me in a very emotional space...

    Let me explain.

    Shandy.... A previous Dober-girl of mine.

    Came to me by way of the Chief vetenarian of out local SPCA. She was a rescue case, found tied to a post with barb wire. She had wound the wire round and round the post until all she could do was sit and stand with the pole & barbed wire right up against her flanks and the barbs had cut her skin raw.....

    Dr Lesli-Lun she phoned me and said those classic words... Come in, I think I’ve got something for you...

    Shandy would do anything and everything for me.... search & retrieve. Carry my chequebook / rolled up magazine / pick up a coin off a tiled floor / Down stay in the front of supermarkets / get into the lift, and go up & down on her own, then when it came back to the floor I was on... There she was... Still sitting in the lift...

    But, she was not a protection dog.... And every time the decoy teased her all she would do is sit and puff & blow...........

    Hell I loved that dog......

    Shandy.... around 1995.... I so remember that year...The year before I had fostered my son out of welfare, and he was placed perminently under my care....

    She was part of the glue that bonded Chris, my son and I....

    He had never ever had anything to take to his school for show and tell.... So I let him take Shandy......

    He never stopped talking about their big day.... He beat all the other kids hands down...

    For the first time in his life, instead of having to be ashamed about things... clothing... simply everything......he had something to be proud of........... Those two.... They became inseparable...

    As I pen this, now I’m emotional... So I’m coming back to Grumble....

    J, not so far. I’m still in the process of environmental training... don’t get out of the car without permission, don’t go beyond the driveway gate, don’t go into the main house, but it’s ok to come into my cottage, walk next to me, don't jump up on people and so on...

    I won’t be formally training for quite a while yet... They are such babies until 12 – 18 months and my thinking is not to pressure them too soon. I seem to think one get’s more solid results when the formal training’s done later, when they are a bit more mature, and can handle additional pressure...

    What's your thoughts???

    Chris my son & my grandson on his 8th birthday... Aiden, stealing garlic snail sauce from Dad Ayden 6 03.jpg
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  6. jazzies mum

    jazzies mum Notable member

    @Nutz Wow, you got bitten by the Dober bug. I think they are all special dogs and it probably makes the bond even stronger when you rescue one who has seen the dark side of life. (That could also be said of people too, I suspect) Jazz is only half Dobie, but has a lot of the traits, including the sighing and huffing, puffing. She started that very young, usually when I was settling her down for quiet time at night and she was wound up and wanting to keep playing. When she does comply in the end, she gets the last word with a huge, drawn out sigh, huff to let me know how hard done by she is. She still does this!

    Regarding training, I have always been firm about manners, sitting and waiting for food, being polite about her behaviour around me. That means, don't nip, bite any part of me or my clothes. (She was persistent!) And, while I love to see her have the zoomies, that doesn't mean it is acceptable to "bomb" me. In fact she has had to learn to treat me with respect, especially as far as physical roughhousing goes. My training method has been to have her comfortable with as many things in life as possible and know what is expected of her in each of them. All the basics have been established since early days by short, fun training sessions held at odd times during normal routines, and in her eyes it is all part of her daily fun! With the exception of recall! This is something she knows well and does beautifully, but if there is anything very interesting going on she has adolescent deafness! A work in progress. I don't live where there are formal training opportunities, but I'd love to get involved in some form of agility training.

    What I have found in the last 6 weeks is that with this good basic training, Jazz has handled some fairly daunting situations without undue stress, has behaved in a way that showed a maturity that at 15 months you just wouldn't expect, and proved to me beyond any doubt that her sensitivity and intuition will always help make up for any lack of formal training.

    I have also been bitten by the Dober Bug. :biggrin:
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  7. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Hi J

    Yes that’s pretty much what I’m saying.

    Only when the dog’s secure & imprinted in its grounding, does it know what to expect, especially when having to cope with new challanges of agility / protection & obedience and won’t be influenced by uncertainties.

    For example.... The recall.... If the dog already knows it will NEVER be chastised when it comes to you, no-matter what the circumstances, your recall will be 100 % solid....

    BUT, the dog has to learn and utterly believe in that. That’s the grounding / environment / call-it-as-you-will training that I believe the dog has to have first that I refer to.

    By entrenching the grounding (I believe) you are setting up each and every task for success. The more successes the dog has the quicker & better the tasks become, and it’s all based on solid foundation.

    See (and here is where I have a bit of a divergence) in training methodology.

    I understand the concept of treat rewarding when training. BUT, unlike solid foundation imprinting first, I don’t think (my personal opinion) it makes for a solid foundation for training.

    I’m of the mind that, using treat reward to enable setting the exercise up for success is acceptable, but it must not become WHY the dog does the exercise, so I cut the treat as soon as sufficient success is achieved (that the dog understands the objective) and quickly transfer the reward to praise and physical contact...

    I may be wrong, but I’ve kinda got the idea that dogs trained only on treat reward, stop succeeding in the exercise if the treat is withdrawn, IE they are, at worst only doing at best mostly doing the excersise for the treat.

    Scruffy...... When I go to my bushveldt retreat. I can recall from anywhere within earshot at the farm with my special call

    She will determine the direction of the sound, and then, using her nose, she will literally hunt me down.

    I’ve watched her from hiding spots many times. 100 % solid recall. In or out of sight.

    With protection, one exercise is to do a recall so that the dog has to run past the decoy, and the dog must not attack the decoy.

    Again Scruffy’s 100 % solid. Ignores the decoy completely and runs straight to me... She has never had treat reward for recall, only positive re-enforcement.

    She knows exactly what the outcome of coming to me is, so her foundational / imprinting training is solid.

    Your thoughts?

    Remember, I'm NOT going to be exposing Grumble to competative sport.. Like Scruffy, she is my companion. Obedient willing well versed, yes, but my companion...... I have nothing to prove / promote..
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  8. jazzies mum

    jazzies mum Notable member

    @Nutz Jazz has never had anything but a warm welcome and praise for coming to me, even when she just comes by to check in on our off leash ramble. Every opportunity I call her in for something good, treat or ear rub and praise. She knows it well and is happy to comply, BUT, she hasn't reached the stage where she has an automatic response, and will get distracted when there is something that takes her whole attention. Of course she is still young but it is time to get more serious and make an issue of getting a good solid recall. There is a bit of independence in Jazz that I have had to learn to work with since puppyhood!

    When I was caring for Dad in his final days, Jazz had to spend some time in the yard, as well as being given a bed in the corner of the sick room. One day she decided she wanted to find me and sailed over the gate. All 5'6" of it! Thought I saw something heading past the window and when I went out to the yard about 10 min later, no Jazz!!!! PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My bush dog was loose in a fairly busy suburban area with a very busy road nearby. Heart in mouth I went down the drive, gave her a call and a big old bush whistle.............................and she came scrambling around the corner from the next door yard, past people and into my arms for an overjoyed reception. So, I think when things are serious, the recall gets much better. If she thinks it is just an exercise then not so important in her mind.
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  9. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    K does this when I give him the wait command. He hates to wait!
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  10. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    Teeth nashing, have you seen that yet? Usually accompanied by the quick, rough 'woof,' throw in some feet stomping for good measure.
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  11. jazzies mum

    jazzies mum Notable member

    :rofl: Is this the one that goes. clack,clack,clack......woof!.......clack,clack........wooowooooooowoo!......clack,clack?
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  12. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Bacall is my big “teeth clacker.”

    She is also the most precise on commands, especially recall. Bogie has improved by leaps and bounds but he isn’t a teeth clacker. He is a moany, groany, back sassing boy. He looks at me and will chat away. Pouts when he is told no. Cuts his eyes at me when I make him stay as if that will change my mind. Bogie is a TOTAL DRAMA KING!!
    I have to say though when the going gets tough and serious so do they.
    @Nutz i am not a giver of treats to get them to do things but I am a huge giver of love, pets and appreciation when they perform well in training or just being themselves.
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  13. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Nope..... I get the silent, "quizzical look" You know.... Ears up, face tilted... Are you NUTZ ??? :rofl::rofl: look....

    Just had to go there....

    It's either that or lot's of vocalisation.... Shall we say............. Oh cummon let's go there as well.....GRUMBLING....:lmao:

    Yip...... Just had to go there too...

    But it's true.... Come treat time it's quizzical.... come sleep time it's Grumble time....

    Mind you, on Saturday at the doggi-doctor, a 4 legged something walked in the door, and I got my second Woooowoowoowoo and her hair on her back stood up......

    Other than that..... Not much....

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  14. JanS

    JanS DCF Owner Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Albert does the teeth clacking when he's being a smartass. I'll tell him not to do something and he'll look at me and do the "clack, clack, clack" and sometimes I can't help but chuckle when he knows he's acting like a brat.
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  15. jazzies mum

    jazzies mum Notable member

    I made the mistake of laughing once when Jazz gave me a fairly solid nose punch in the butt. Right on the button she was, and I only had panties on coming from the shower. :shock: Burst out laughing, and then had a persistent butt poking Dobie for quite a while before she gave it up. :banghead:
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  16. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Morning fellas...
    See what I mean... Learning a "new language"
    I just wonder though, who is the teacher and who is the pupil..:eekwtf:

    Grumbles has just discovered why there are such things as blankets and bed covers, and how nice and warm and cozy it's under them....

    So now we have the "BATTLE OF THE BLANKETS" :complain:
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  17. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    BATTLE OF THE BLANKETS has been won
    Grumble slept on her over-stuffed sofa cushoun on the floor next to my bed !
    With my dressing gown as a blankey...:fingersx::fingersx::fingersx:
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  18. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    Wow, kicking a Doberman out of your bed doesn't seem like an easy task!
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  19. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Kicking them out of bed... :rofl:
    mine will look at me like I have decided to starve them and put them outside. The looks I get from them is priceless.

    They give me a look of hmmm... well you got to sleep sometime and we shall make our move back to the bed as you dream of well behaved and obedient Dobermans.:evilgrin:
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  20. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Ok so the BATTLE OF THE BLANKETS rages on....

    last night.......Lying on my right side..... Dozing off.......... You know, that "I'm almost asleep" zone

    Grumble launched her counter-attack

    A good attempt, to outflank me executed with not-so-military-like-precision <more like puppy precision> resulted in the 20 000 things uptop bedside table being de-bunked on the floor, and a solid dinner-plate-for-a-foot backed up by 20Kg plonked 4 square on me blasted earhole...........:complain:

    Well, if that was supposed to be a stealth attack, it was a giant flop of note..

    I counter attacked with a left-handed-collar-grab and, using her momentum, yanked her all the way round and right off the bed.......... :machinegun:Too hell with the 20 000 things on my bedside table........... I'm off to la-la land...

    Woke up, Grumble lying on the floor, head half out the door..... woke up this morning and she was back on her overstuffed sofa cushoun... And a coliflower earhole...

    Counter-attack squished.....

    But... back to learning a new language...

    Tomorrow night, I'm going to take her with Scruffy to protection training. I want to see her reaction to an unprompted, threatening move from another <unknown> human.....

    Either she will run behind my legs / stand there and look at the instructor as if he nutz..... Or react and give me a Wooooowowowo

    let me put my neck on the block... Gonna look at the fella as if he's nutz.....

    And although that's gonna make me a very happy chappy :thumbsup: I'll be honest though.... A Woooooowowowoooo would swell-my-cold-as-custard-heart-with pure-pride....:gun::gun::gun:
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