Journey back to kibble

[DocReverto]

Long story short I am officially done with raw. The longer my guys are on it the worse their health declines.

Any tips for making the switch from raw to kibble?

I put them both on a prescription grade probiotic that I had leftover.

It is still upsetting their tummies quite a bit.

 

[DocReverto]

Poor Crow baby didn't even eat all her meal today. Which is incredibly rare. She is such a good eater so I know she isn't feeling well.

 

[MyBuddy]

Wow, Matt, I'm so sorry to hear that! I didn't realize they (or is it just Crow?) were still having tummy issues. As you know, I don't feed raw, but I've always heard good things about it.

Would you not just introduce the kibble little at a time like when switching to a different kibble?

 

[DocReverto]

Wow, Matt, I'm so sorry to hear that! I didn't realize they (or is it just Crow?) were still having tummy issues. As you know, I don't feed raw, but I've always heard good things about it.

Would you not just introduce the kibble little at a time like when switching to a different kibble?

Thank you. I haven't posted about it in the thread where Raven is sick, but everyone is at a loss.
I know my boy very well and something is up. My only other option, and my vet agrees, is that the raw is causing serious issues with him. He supports raw, but not for every dog.

Raven has always been a bad eater, but since this coccidea flare up he has yet to get back to 100% normal.

Crow is just upset because its a different food I am sure. She has stayed relatively healthy through all of this with her only problem being thinning of hair on the neck and chest.

Everything I had read has stated it is a good idea to do a cold turkey switch if you are going back to kibble. I don't know the accuracy behind that, but I doubt many people have embarked on something like this.
I started out with a 24 hours fast.
Then one cup for Raven and a half cup for Crow.

Crow ate a full meal that following night, and had the runs of course. So naturally she refused a meal this morning. Stomach has to be upset, she normally clears her bowl in under 10 seconds.

Raven refused a meal last night, and this morning. So he does not have anything other than that one cup in his system to cause trouble.

Now here is my bigger problem. I could slowly transition them, but that would require ordering more meat. I was feeding chicken up until the last day, and the chicken was just giving him terrible runs. He has never been able to eat whole bones without digestive problems.

 

[DocReverto]

Need a little insight on an idea here.

We all know the 20 minute rule where if he doesn't eat it, it gets put up.

What about incorporating something like this when he feels better.

Its on the ground for a minute. If he shows no interest in the food it goes back up until next mealtime.
I am thinking this may build more drive to eat fast and all of it. Or is it to harsh?

 

[obbanner]

My wife's breed is Shelties, and at the shows last weekend, became friends with a Sheltie breeder. The breeder switched to raw feeding and 9 of her dogs came down with pancreatitis. Her husband said they could have bought a new Cadillac with the money they spent on vet bills. I think you made the right choice.

 

[DocReverto]

My wife's breed is Shelties, and at the shows last weekend, became friends with a Sheltie breeder. The breeder switched to raw feeding and 9 of her dogs came down with pancreatitis. Her husband said they could have bought a new Cadillac with the money they spent on vet bills. I think you made the right choice.

I could have paid for quite a few things with the amount of money I have spent on the vet for Raven.
It is just getting out of control.

I never had any of these problems on kibble. He wasn't the greatest eater, but at least he ate. He was healthy, and toned.

Raw is great in theory, and I know it works great for so many dogs. Just not mine.
My biggest fear about feeding raw was that one of my dogs would get sick and I could not find a vet familiar with raw. Sure as shit that happened. Now I am just stuck in this loop. I throw money at the vet, nothing gets diagnosed. Time passes, I repeat those same tests with no results.

I will be very happy when I don't have to clean up guts off my kitchen counter.
Now I just need to hope that the kibble transition will go well.

I am 100% sure he is going to be picky. Why wouldn't he after eating steaks for dinner every day?

 

[obbanner]

I am 100% sure he is going to be picky. Why wouldn't he after eating steaks for dinner every day?

Sorry for laughing at your dilemma - that just struck me funny!

Hope I'm not flogging the obvious, but did you think about dressing up the kibble with something that smells nice during transition, such as gravy?

 

[MyBuddy]

The breeder switched to raw feeding and 9 of her dogs came down with pancreatitis.

Holy Cow, Art! That's terrible.

I completely agree that switching off the raw is the right move for you right now, Matt. Just like some kibble does not agree with every dog, so is raw. As good as it (feeding raw) sounds, its just not working for you.

My first Doberman was a finicky eater, always on the thin side and it was a constant worry. His stool never seemed right either. I was feeding Solid Gold because the breeder told me to and I didn't have great people like here on DCF to help me. I should have tried something else but since she pushed it I thought it was the best. Changing shouldn't be shameful, and now I know better.

Not eating, being too thin and having the runs are my number one worry so I feel your worries! I hope there are others here who may have had to make this adjustment and can help you more than me. We want both Raven and Crow to feel good!

 

[Dobs4ever]

Matt - you have made a lot of changes and it will take them time both mentally and physically to readjust to the change. It is one reason I have such problem with switching foods and saying how greatit is as everyone thinks things are fine but truthfully you can't know til the dog has been on it for a while. I know it gave Drake a bacterial infection that caused him to smell and did a job on his teeth. There is no one program that works for all dogs but with raw you always take a big chance especially with a growing puppy.

I am sorry you had all the problems and the dogs have struggled to adjust. I think if you just give them time they will readjust and get back to normal. If I were doing it I would recommend cold turkey - If the raw has caused them problems then you won't solve it til they are completely switched which to me trying to switch slowly only aggravates the problems they are having.

It might cause some initial challenges but it will stop the problems being caused by the raw. I don't do raw - don't believe in it for the long haul and according Dr. Becker (my Dr. Becker not the AR nut on youtube) raw produces a bacteria that some dogs can't overcome and it leads to all kinds of other problems. They have been on it a while so it might take them a while (usually approx 90 days) to get all the residue out of their system.

 

[DocReverto]

Sorry for laughing at your dilemma - that just struck me funny!

Hope I'm not flogging the obvious, but did you think about dressing up the kibble with something that smells nice during transition, such as gravy?

Im worried this may cause even more pickiness if I change now. Let me know what you think though? I am cool with doing that, but I don't want to compound his problem.

Crow will be fine within 24 hours. That girl bounces back from things like a rubber band, come tomorrow she will be stuffing her face. Raven unfortunately is not as easy.

Holy Cow, Art! That's terrible.

I completely agree that switching off the raw is the right move for you right now, Matt. Just like some kibble does not agree with every dog, so is raw. As good as it (feeding raw) sounds, its just not working for you.

My first Doberman was a finicky eater, always on the thin side and it was a constant worry. His stool never seemed right either. I was feeding Solid Gold because the breeder told me to and I didn't have great people like here on DCF to help me. I should have tried something else but since she pushed it I thought it was the best. Changing shouldn't be shameful, and now I know better.

Not eating, being too thin and having the runs are my number one worry so I feel your worries! I hope there are others here who may have had to make this adjustment and can help you more than me. We want both Raven and Crow to feel good!

Thank you. I think now is the right time to do it as well. I wish raw would have worked well for them and me, but it hasn't.
There are so many things I sacrificed by going with raw.

I for one will be extremely happy not having to bring a cooler to dog shows anymore.

 

[DocReverto]

Matt - you have made a lot of changes and it will take them time both mentally and physically to readjust to the change. It is one reason I have such problem with switching foods and saying how greatit is as everyone thinks things are fine but truthfully you can't know til the dog has been on it for a while. I know it gave Drake a bacterial infection that caused him to smell and did a job on his teeth. There is no one program that works for all dogs but with raw you always take a big chance especially with a growing puppy.

I am sorry you had all the problems and the dogs have struggled to adjust. I think if you just give them time they will readjust and get back to normal. If I were doing it I would recommend cold turkey - If the raw has caused them problems then you won't solve it til they are completely switched which to me trying to switch slowly only aggravates the problems they are having.

It might cause some initial challenges but it will stop the problems being caused by the raw. I don't do raw - don't believe in it for the long haul and according Dr. Becker (my Dr. Becker not the AR nut on youtube) raw produces a bacteria that some dogs can't overcome and it leads to all kinds of other problems. They have been on it a while so it might take them a while (usually approx 90 days) to get all the residue out of their system.

This post makes an extreme amount of sense. Expecially on the bacteria side of it.

It would fully explain why this is next to impossible to diagnose, and also why C&R were fine on raw for so long. (Bacteria building up in their systems)

I also think you are right on switching cold turkey. It is going to cause some more digestive upset, but in the long run it is worth it.

Once I spoke with Genny about the high white blood cell count in Drake I was sold on kibble again.
Excact same symptoms with Raven. Raven just took longer to develop them.

Crow did great on it with the exception of the growing hair loss, which is a big problem in my eyes though.

They are both back on Precise Hollistic. It is a 4 star food that they did great on before raw, and its a little less expensive then Acana, Orijen, ect. Its a food designed for sensitive tummies to.

 

[Asteria]

I think your making the right move to go back to kibble. Remember how much I went through trying to switch Luca. It just Wasn't for him and I knew right away the vet bills would keep piling up.

I hope they transition over soon for your sanity. I know how worrying it can be when going through this.

 

[DocReverto]

Oh, I remember. I know exactly how you feel now to.
Its scary, but the weirdest thing about this is that he shows no symptoms other than skipping meals.

His energy is up, his coat is nice, everything is perfect about him which is why I continue to show him. I pulled him from a couple when he had coccidea because he was showing symptoms, I would pull him again but there is really no need.
It makes it extremely hard to figure out what is going on in his head.

Im just hoping it was a problem with the raw. If the kibble switch doesn't do it we are going to have to start allergy testing I fear.

 

[Asteria]

Well fingers crossed the kibble will resolve it. Allergy testing ... ugh.

 

[Dragonborn]

wow so sorry to hear the raw isnt working out :/ that sucks!! But every dog is different of course!

 

[DocReverto]

wow so sorry to hear the raw isnt working out :/ that sucks!! But every dog is different of course!

Thanks. Its no diss on raw, or raw feeders.
I have met dogs that do excellent on raw.

I am just starting to think that the digestive tract needs to be rock hard to handle it, and not every dog has a sensitive digestive tract. Crow doesn't, now why she's loosing hair who knows. Could be not enough organ meant, or a thyroid issue. I should see improvement shortly if it isn't thyroid.

 

[Gelcoater]

Matt,you know I am no expert here so take it for what little it may be worth.
First I think D4E may be on to something with the bacteria idea.I would probably be adding some plain yogurt to the kibble.My dogs love it!
Second,as C&R are both a little picky now(who could blame them,right?) have you thought about adding some canned dog food into the kibble to get some good meaty smell in there for them?
We started adding canned about a month ago,let me tell you it's really added an extra excitement to dog dinner time.Even old Maxie is excited about dinner again.She's the reason we started doing canned.We noticed she was losing weight,and energy.She would hardly ever finish a meal.That has changed!It's added a new spark to an almost 15 year old girl.

 

[DocReverto]

I can try it for sure.
the problem with Raven being that he will go for something new once or twice. Then its no longer new, and he no longer cares for it.

I think I am just going to have to be mean about food to him.

If you don't start showing enthusiasm to eat the second the food bowl hits the ground, it gets put up until next meal time.
I think adding anything else it this point will make my problem worse.


The problem is more, why isn't he interested in food in the first place.

 

[Archer]

Sorry you are going through this Hope you can figure something out.