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Grain free, raw?

HBomb

New Member
So I know about the connections with grain free and DCM in Dobermann’s.. so what is the rule with a raw diet? Never see it mentioned.. I was thinking if I need to include a grain, sprouted barley could be a good choice. But I just can’t find any supporting info about grain free, raw for Dobes or if it is necessary when raw.
 

Ravenbird

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From what I understand there is NOT a connection with grain free & DCM in the Doberman breed. DCM in Dobermans is mostly genetic. It was found that DCM increased in breeds not commonly known to have DCM after the grain-free push started. So if there IS a connection, it would be adding insult to injury to a Doberman that may already be prone to it. "Grain free" dog food has basically replaced wheat, corn & soy with lentils & peas. Not technically grains, so they can say grain-free, but it's sure not meat. Wheat & corn are fillers and pretty starchy. Soy is very high protein but affects hormones and just isn't a good idea no matter what, lentils & peas are starchy AND have high protein. None of these are good substitutes for meat protein when it comes to dogs & cats. To feed raw, there are lots of links that @strykerdobe posts to help you learn. Plenty of Dobermans live long lives on good quality kibble. You can read through Dog Food Advisor website for non-biased ratings of almost all the dog foods out there. I have no doubt raw is a great diet, but you have to be sure to balance it or buy pre-made balanced, both of which take time & effort &/or $$$. You can go crazy trying to do what's best for your dog and still not be sure.
 

Rits

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The issue with grain free was not the lack of grains itself but possibly the source of proteins used to boost the protein % for cheap and the ingredients used to bind the food together. There was correlation with these ingredients possibly blocking taurine absorption and thus causing taurine deficiency and diet induced DCM. With raw, you do not need to feed grain or worry about lack of taurine, typically. As a lot of your organ meats will cover that.
 

HBomb

New Member
The issue with grain free was not the lack of grains itself but possibly the source of proteins used to boost the protein % for cheap and the ingredients used to bind the food together. There was correlation with these ingredients possibly blocking taurine absorption and thus causing taurine deficiency and diet induced DCM. With raw, you do not need to feed grain or worry about lack of taurine, typically. As a lot of your organ meats will cover that.
Ah, thank you! That makes so much more sense!
 

strykerdobe

Hot Topics Subscriber
So I know about the connections with grain free and DCM in Dobermann’s.. so what is the rule with a raw diet? Never see it mentioned.. I was thinking if I need to include a grain, sprouted barley could be a good choice. But I just can’t find any supporting info about grain free, raw for Dobes or if it is necessary when raw.


There is no definitive answer on the Grain Free foods. They were looking at the Pea Proteins and Legumes as possible things that are blocking Taurine absorption.
My take on Kibble and Canned foods Grain Free or Non Grain Free. They have for 1) Not enough named meat in them. 2) Too many (40-60% or more) Carbs in them. 3) Boosted protein levels with mostly grains. When you read the bag on how much protein there is. Guaranteed most of the protein is from Non meat sources.

Raw foods.
A Prey model raw diet is just 80% muscle meat, 10% Bone and 10% Organs with no grains. A Prey Diet you must feed Bones and Organs and Not just meat! Because there are other nutrients like vitamins, amino acids and other things in Organs that are not in muscle meat. Also bones for calcium and other nutrients.

We feed mostly a rotational (with different meat proteins) Prey diet. But we do add some canned Pumpkin, ground plain Organic pumpkin seeds, coconut oil, Omega 3 Sardine and Anchovy Oil, Blueberries.

Yes lots of dogs do good on Kibble and canned foods. And it depends on your budget and picking a better food.
 

strykerdobe

Hot Topics Subscriber

New Study Adds Fuel to DCM and Grain-free Dog Food Controversy​

  • Jennifer Boncy
  • Mar 10, 2021


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Shuttersock

DCM and grain-free foods—here we go again.
A study published in the Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine in December 2020 seems to demonstrate that dogs with dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) that were consuming “nontraditional dog foods—namely, grain-free diets—were more likely to show signs of significant improvement in cardiac function if put back on “traditional” diets, along with being treated with heart medications.
So, it’s not an outright indictment on grain-free dog foods, but certainly not an endorsement.

The study follows the U.S. Food & Drug Administration’s (FDA) investigation of a suspected correlation between grain-free dog foods and instances of canine DCM, and adds a new wrinkle to what has become a quagmire for pet specialty retailers and pet food manufacturers who are trying to do right by their customers.

Since the FDA has raised the question of a potential link between DCM and grain-free foods—particularly diets formulated with legumes or pulses to replace the grains—others in the scientific community are also taking a closer look and adding their findings to a growing well of research on the topic.
However, it was only a few months ago that Pet Product News (PPN) reported that an FDA official acknowledged during a virtual scientific forum hosted by Kansas State University (KSU) in late September that there is no clear evidence indicating that grain-free foods with pulse ingredients are inherently dangerous for dogs and conceded that the “complex scientific messaging” was often lost in translation in the media.
And back in July, research published in the Journal of Animal Science—backed by veterinarians, veterinary cardiologists and animal nutritionists from BSM Partners, a pet care research and consulting firm—concluded that there is no definitive link between DCM and grain-free diets, a conclusion that we said came as no surprise to many industry insiders.
The news gave us perhaps a little hope—maybe false—that any concerns about the health impacts of grain-free diets would soon fall to the wayside.
So what impact will this new study have on anyone’s understanding of the issue?

It’s hard to say, and it’s probably most accurate to portend that our understanding of any potential link—or the absence thereof—will continue to evolve as more independent researchers reveal new findings and as the FDA continues its investigation. The one thing everyone seems to be in agreement on is that more research is still needed.

In the meantime, this new study may amplify concerns that, at the very least, pet foods that contain typical grains and not pulses—referred to by the researchers as traditional foods—may be better suited for dogs that have DCM or that may be predisposed to the condition than grain-free pet foods containing pulses, or nontraditional foods.
The study was funded by the Barkley Fund—a funding arm of Tuft University’s Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, which aims to improve the care of animals with heart disease by supporting clinical investigations, teaching and learning—and was conducted by researchers from the department of clinical sciences at Cummings that included: Kimberly J. Freid, Lisa M. Freeman, John E. Rush, Suzanne M. Cunningham, Megan S. Davis, Emily T. Karlin and Vicky K. Yang.
The study reviewed the medical records of dogs diagnosed with DCM between Jan. 1, 2014, and Sept. 30, 2018, and grouped dogs into “traditional” or “nontraditional” diet categories and whether or not diet was changed after diagnosis. While the researchers did conclude that dogs with DCM that had been eating nontraditional diets improved at a greater rate when put back on traditional formulas, they also conceded that more research was needed to examine a possible link between the heart condition and diet.
Also, in their declaration of conflict of interest, two of the researchers—Freid and Rush—disclosed connections to pet food companies such as Hill’s Pet Nutrition, Nestlé Purina, Royal Canin and Mars—whether it was in the form of sponsored lectures or some sort of professional services.

Again, it’s hard to weigh the impact of this study yet, and it may be even tougher for some in the pet industry to know how to advise confused pet owners on how to feed their pets. So in essence, nothing much has changed—pet retailers and manufacturers need to stay abreast of the new research as it develops, and not necessarily make any knee-jerk responses as we all await the definitive answers we seek.

For more on PPN’s coverage of DCM, read:


 

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