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Discussion in 'Doberman Talk and Discussions' started by Roman the Doberman, Jan 24, 2019.

  1. Roman the Doberman

    Roman the Doberman New Member

    is merrick food one of the best food for dobermans ? I know everyday people say different things and it’s the most annoying thing but I want to make sure I give him really good food
    I have heard holistic large breed puppy might be even better ?
    I m confused help lol

     
  2. C908

    C908 Notable member

    This is a subject that will get you a lot of different opinions. Talk to a vet and most will push you towards Science Diet or Royal Canin, skip both of those. We have some members that swear by feeding Raw. Others like myself feed a dry kibble like Fromm, or something comparable. We recently switched from Fromm to Earthborn Holistic Ocean Fusion. We did this because the protein source is fish instead of chicken. Look at reviews and do your research then make an educated decision. My advice would be to stay away from the cheap grocery store brands that are offered. I would also recommend Petflow.com as a good source for all of the top brand foods. Good luck.
     
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  3. Ddski5

    Ddski5 Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    That’s a subject in which you will have a large vary of opinions.

    Some feed raw, some feed kibble. Just all kinda depends on your situation and what you are willing and capable of doing.

    If you chose kibble, then there are some that are better than others. This is a good site that gives you an idea of good vs bad and the reasons why. Dry Dog Food Reviews | Dog Food Advisor

    A lot of us use to feed grain free kibble until recently it was put out to the public that grain free kibble is suspected of contributing to DCM- Dialated CardioMyopathy. I switched from Taste of the Wild to 4Health Performance, others switched to Holistic, FROMM, etc... it really depends on what you and your Doberman likes, some tend to have sensitive GI systems. Mine does not care, he will eat acorns and sticks if I let him.

    Search through the site for the different dog food posts. There is a lot of informative material that has been presented and discussed.
     
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  4. Doberman Gang

    Doberman Gang Hot Topics Subscriber

    I would say a good 4-5 star rated kibble is good. I would recommend an all life stages food verses puppy or large breed. Definitely stay away from those.
     
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  5. Antman408

    Antman408 $ Forum Donor $

    I feed raw and would never switch back to kibble. Kibbles like fast food, yeah you’ll survive on it but it’s not healthy for you. Just my two cents.
     
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  6. C908

    C908 Notable member

    He just wants to add a little fiber to his diet.
     
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  7. Kojak

    Kojak New Member

    Our breeder was sold on Bil-Jac and had used it for the past 15 years. We've kept Jaani on it, she loves it, no digestive issues and gaining weight like she should.
     
  8. Doberman Gang

    Doberman Gang Hot Topics Subscriber

    Body brought to you by a fast food kibble diet!!! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
    0DE0011F-2FB4-48DA-913A-AFDF0B628939.jpeg
     
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  9. Firestar Dobe

    Firestar Dobe Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    My girls love and thrive on Fromm!
     
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  10. Antman408

    Antman408 $ Forum Donor $

    Nice looking dog. However I still stand by my statement.
     
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  11. My2Girls

    My2Girls Notable member

    Here are some of the brands we’ve been on:
    Earthborn Holistic
    Zignatures
    Taste of the Wild
    Fromm
    Orijen
    And just transitioned to Nature’s Logic

    I think if you don’t have allergy issues Fromm is a great kibble. They haven’t had a recall, 4 star rated, has grain and reasonably priced.
     
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  12. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber



    @Antman408 Yes No getting around that Kibble and Canned is a Processed (Fast) Food! Just look at the dates stamped on the bags! When food can last 1year and a lot longer in a bag, its highly Processed. Preservatives are added so the Fats do not go rancid. Another good reason is to keep your Kibble in the bag it came in and placed into an air tight container. Because once a bag is opened and air gets into the kibble it will start to degrade the kibble. Air is an Oxidizer! And will start to turn fats rancid.
    I guess you can call Processed Pet foods like Kibble especially just Cereal.

    @Doberman Gang he looks good. But!

    Can all pets eat a raw diet? No. Especially ones that have Cancer and are getting Chemo. These pets should be fed a home made cooked diet (not on high heat) food.



    Years ago one thing I told our old Vet who we do not see anymore. When I told him I feed Raw. He said you can kill your dog. I said Well I guess I will kill them sooner than feeding regular dog food!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

    If I fed Kibble I would be adding in some other real fresh food to make it better.


    Can our pets can survive on Processed Foods? Yes. Will they Thrive? Most probably will not thrive in the long run and will need prescription meds. Pets now are getting so many human diseases because of Processed Foods, Over-Vaccinations, Flea and Tick Pesticides. Also 60% of pets are over weight. Because of Starch added to pet food. Starch is needed to hold the shape of the Kibble. Remember Starch=Carbs=Sugar! Most Kibble will be anywhere from 40-60% Carbs! How much sugar is in pet food?





    I'm sure Genes play an important part in longevity. Heck I'm sure some people can eat McDonalds and smoke every day and live a long life. But will they live a long healthy life without the use of Prescription meds? Just like humans. We are living longer but sicker!



    Ingredients are purchased from Rendering Plants.
    Where dead animals (Road Kill, Euthanized Animals) 4D animals (dead, dying, diseased or disabled animals are used in pet food and animal feed) go to and also all kinds of human food waste.

    Rendering Plants where anything food wise (who knows what else) and everything is augured and ground into small pieces. Then put into a large cooker and then heated to at least 280deg. for maybe an hour and more. Any thing heated to that temp. will destroy any Amino Acids, Enzymes and other nutrients. The end result of the end product is basically Dead!
    Then this mixture and other ingredients are put into an Extruding Machine and Heated again to take the moisture out and to form the Kibble into the shape and size the manufacturer decides for what size pet. Again what comes out the other end of this process is basically DEAD. This is why flavorings, amino acids and vitamins (which are synthetic) are sprayed on to the kibble.

    Remember the big floods last summer in South and North Carolina. They told all the farmers to lock all their animals up in barns. This was so drowned dead animals (thousands of them) would not be floating around. All these dead animals went where? To rendering plants. Yes rendering plants sell ingredients to Pet Food Companies and Companies that make food for farm animals.

    Rendering Plants -- Recycling of Dead Animals and ...
    www.jivdaya.org/rendering_plants.html
    Recycled Products and Usage: This food enhancer is mixed with other ingredients to feed the billions of animals. Rendering plants have different specialties. Some product-label names are: meat meal, meat by-products, poultry meal, poultry by-products, fishmeal, fish oil, yellow grease, tallow, beef fat and chicken fat


    Actually Pet Food (which they call it by this nicer name) is considered Animal Feed. If you look up what AAFCO stands for Association of American Feed Control Officials. They set standards for both animal feeds and pet foods in the United States.
    AAFCO cannot and does not regulate or inspect anything.

    What Is AAFCO? - dogsnaturallymagazine.com
    What Is AAFCO?aafco
    AAFCO states that a minimum of eight healthy dogs are required for one trial and that the trial must last a minimum of 26 weeks where only one formulation of food is tested and is the sole source of nutrition (except for water).





    The Romance is Over
    June 12, 2014
    in Pet Food Regulations
    Right from a document on the FDA website – confirmation that meat from dead, dying, diseased or disabled animals (4-D) are used in pet food. It is a violation of law that no regulatory authority seems to care about. And no pet food consumer is told about (which pet foods use 4-D meats).

    To prevent the spread of Mad Cow Disease, the U.S. government developed law that restricts the use of certain risk materials from being fed to cattle and other animals. Back when these laws were being implemented, FDA issued guidance documents to animal rendering facilities and slaughter facilities. Dr. Jean Hofve found one of these FDA documents titled “Questions and Answers BSE Feed Regulation” and forwarded to me.

    The document is set up like a Frequently Asked Questions section for renderers. We can assume that just like FAQ sections on any website, the FDA themselves wrote each question and each response based on what they believed industry would need further explanation on. Pet food consumers concern is Question 35…(bold added)

    “Q35. In addition to providing rendered, non-prohibited product for feeding to ruminants, my firm grinds 4-D meat (meat from dead, dying, diseased or disabled animals) primarily for pet food markets. The 4-D meat is usually ground and frozen but not heat processed. What are the clean-out guidelines fro processing these products?”

    The FDA’s response to Q35 in this document doesn’t matter. What matters is that 4-D meat in ANY food is a violation of federal law and no federal authority seems to care.

    The federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act defines food as: Title 21, Code 321 Definitions; generally “(f) The term “food” means (1) articles used for food or drink for man or other animals.”

    And the federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act defines an adulterated food as: Title 21, Code 342 “(5) if it is, in whole or in part, the product of a diseased animal or of an animal which has died otherwise than by slaughter”.

    4-D animals are not slaughtered. They are animals found dead in the field, feed lot, poultry barn. They are diseased or disabled animals that are euthanized. 4-D animals are a 100% without a doubt violation of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act to be included in any food including pet food.

    The inclusion of 4-D meat in pet food is openly discussed and accepted in regulatory circles, but it is NEVER disclosed to the consumer. Never will a pet food consumer find on the pet food or treat label “Ingredients: meat sourced from diseased or disabled animals that were rejected for use in human food.”

    The regulatory authorities know 4-D meats are used in pet foods, they probably even know which foods and treats include 4-D meats. And the manufacturers and ingredient suppliers know. But the consumer does not.

    Consumers are sold through what AAFCO refers to as “romance copy” – otherwise known as marketing. Pet food romances the money out of our wallets through cute commercials and beautiful images of steak and roasted or grilled chicken on the label. But what is inside that bag or can of pet food displaying images of grilled chicken or choice steaks could be 4-D meat – and no one is going to tell you if it is or isn’t 4-D.

    It’s wrong. It’s illegal. Companies are making millions of dollars in profits selling trusting pet food consumers pet food made with illegal 4-D meats and other wastes no animal should consume.

    FDA has told me for years, the compliance policies that allow loopholes to federal law for pet foods to use 4-D meats were established because they have no scientific evidence 4-D meats are harmful to pets (no kidding – I’ve been told this many times).

    My question to authorities…if regulatory authorities feel so strongly that 4-D meats do not harm any pet…then why not tell the consumer which pet foods or treats contain 4-D meats?

    The industry and regulatory authorities wonders why there is such a lack of trust and confidence from consumers. They blame it on us ‘pet food bloggers’ – those trouble makers. The real reason is the industry as a whole doesn’t tell us the truth. The romance is over. Pet food consumers deserve to know what they are buying.
    Wishing you and your pet(s) the best,

    Susan Thixton
    Pet Food Safety Advocate
    Author Buyer Beware, Co-Author Dinner PAWsible
    TruthaboutPetFood.com
    Association for Truth in Pet Food

    What’s in Your Pet’s Food?
    Is your dog or cat eating risk ingredients? Chinese imports? Petsumer Report tells the ‘rest of the story’ on over 2500 cat foods, dog foods, and pet treats. 30 Day Satisfaction Guarantee. www.PetsumerReport.com




    Kibble: Why It’s Not A Good Option For Your Dog

    https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/kibble-never-a-good-option
    She made the transition to the pet food world while consulting for Answers Pet Food, and has since become a full time partner at Answers. Roxanne is a member of the Weston A. Price Foundation and the Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund which are dedicated to restoring nutrient-dense foods to the American diet through education, research and activism.

    Kibble: Why It’s Not A Good Option For Your Dog

    [​IMG]

    By: Roxanne Stone MSc
    With the advent of the industrial revolution and the rapid depletion of small family farms, our ancestral food chain has seen significant changes within the last 100 years, and not altogether for the better.

    The mass migration of people into cities and away from small villages and farms has influenced our food industry to move to overly cooked, heavily processed, low quality, convenience foods.

    Unfortunately, these same foods have made their way into the bowls of our companion animals and they are experiencing many of the same human health repercussions as a result.

    Click here to view our Free Raw Feeding Videos and we’ll show you why your dog was never designed to eat dry kibble and how a fresh, whole food diet will improve health and vitality.

    What Dogs Are Designed To Eat
    Historically, cooked foods have never been a part of the canine and feline diet, rather they have subsisted and thrived off live prey, fermented carrion, and they foraged for any scraps they could obtain. They have only been introduced to cooked and processed foods within the last 80 years.

    Looking back at the historical diets of dogs and their wolf ancestors, it is clearly evident that they are carnivores. Their teeth, gut and digestive physiology strongly support this.

    Dogs have hinged, powerful jaws along with canines and triangular shaped carnassial teeth for the ripping and tearing of flesh and crushing of bone.

    They don’t have the typical molars for the grinding of plant material or a four chamber stomach for the slow digestion and fermentation of complex carbohydrates (starches from plants and grains).

    They have a large stomach, short digestive tract and very small cecum, indicative of consuming large amounts of high protein food in a short time period and for fast digestion and rapid absorption of nutrients. 1

    In the wild, these canines could typically go many days between their meals.

    What They’re Not Designed To Eat
    Why are 90% of animal caretakers feeding their carnivore companions a dry kibble diet consisting of at least 60% carbohydrate, very little moisture and minimal, low quality protein?

    Much of the protein in commercial kibble diets is also plant based. Expecting our pets to graze on this type of diet all day long, and be satisfied both physically and nutritionally, does not make sense.

    Without going into too much detail on the history of dry commercial kibble diets, the short end of the story is that it was introduced in response to the high cost of meat during the Great Depression and was heavily promoted at the end of WWII when it gained popularity for its convenience, ease of distribution and low cost.

    If our pets have managed to survive off this cheap, convenient, low quality protein source for the last 80 some years, why should we be concerned about it?

    Even though our pets may be surviving off commercial kibble, can we really say that they are thriving on it?

    The answer is pretty clear …

    Chronic degenerative diseases, auto-immune diseases, allergies, kidney, pancreatic and liver disease are all rampant within our pet populations and cancer rates continue to rise. 2

    The Studies Prove It
    A study conducted in Stockholm, Sweden by Dr. Kollath showed that young animals fed a cooked, processed diet initially appeared to be healthy, but once they reached maturity, they began to rapidly age and develop degenerative disease symptoms. The control group that was raised on a raw, uncooked diet did not age as fast and showed no degenerative disease symptoms but remained healthy.

    Another study out of Belgium used data gathered from more than 500 domestic dogs over a consecutive five year time period (1998-2002). The authors, Lippert and Sapy, were able to statistically show that dogs fed a homemade diet, consisting of high quality foods used from their owners’ meals versus dogs fed an industrial, commercial pet food diet had a life expectancy of 32 months longer – that’s almost 3 years!

    Why Not Kibble?
    What many unsuspecting caretakers are unaware of, is that in addition to substandard ingredients, there are many forms of toxins introduced into our pets’ bodies through these highly processed, cooked, kibble diets. These toxins include: aflatoxins, heterocyclic amines, acrylamides, and most recently discovered in dry, cooked pet foods, PBDEs (polybrominated diphenyl ethers) a chemical used as a flame retardant. 3

    Aflatoxins
    Grains such as corn, wheat, and rice, as well as nuts and legumes, are often contaminated with molds, either pre or post harvest, as a result of poor growing conditions or substandard or extended storage.

    These molds can easily grow and produce a very potent carcinogen (aflatoxins). The aflatoxins are very stable and high temperature processing steps will not render them benign.

    Exposure to these toxins, even at low doses, can wreak havoc on your dog’s system, causing anemia, liver or kidney failure, cancer and premature death. 2

    Even if your kibble is grain free, it still contains a high carbohydrate content, so there is the potential for mold spores to contaminate the kibble during storage, especially if it is exposed to a moist environment. This can also happen in your home if your kibble is stored in a moist basement or an open container.

    (Related: Aflatoxins and Mycotoxins In Your Dog’s Food)

    Heterocyclic amines
    Many scientific studies have established the presence of mutagenic, cancer causing substances such as heterocyclic amines as a result of cooking meat and fish, and have additionally demonstrated a relationship between dietary heterocyclic amines and cancer. 4, 5, 6, 7

    A 2003 study that sampled 25 cooked, commercial, store bought pet foods showed that all but one tested positive in their mutagenic test, and a subset of 13 of these same samples were tested and confirmed the presence of heterocyclic amines. 4

    Acrylamides
    Both the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) and WHO (World Health Organization) have classified acrylamide as “a probable carcinogen.”

    Studies show that acrylamides are formed due to the high temperature heat applied to vegetable foods; more specifically a reaction between the amino acid asparagine and the simple sugars found in these foods. Whether that food is fried, baked, roasted or extruded, these substances have been measured at many levels, and in some studies, there are significantly high levels.

    Factors that contribute to acrylamide formation are the lack of remaining moisture in the product and the surface area. These two attributes are found in every type of kibble, which are all low in moisture.

    PBDEs (polybrominated diphenyl ethers)
    Although further studies are needed to determine if there is a direct toxicological effect from PBDEs, it is still alarming to learn of the presence of these chemicals, most commonly used as flame retardants in many household products, in our commercial pet foods.

    A recently published study in the Journal of Environmental Science and Technology revealed that the average blood concentration of these PBDEs was as much as ten times higher in tested dogs than in humans. The researchers also found the presence of PBDEs in dog food samples and at higher levels than in meats sold for human consumption.

    The authors suggest these PBDEs found in the dog food may be a result of processing rather than contributed by the food source itself. 3

    Lifeless Food
    Commercial kibbles not only harbor harmful toxins, they are also stripped of much of their nutrient value, becoming a “dead” food product. 2

    Unfortunately, many well intentioned consumers who want to give their pet a high quality commercial diet choose to buy expensive, “grain free” kibbles, with claims of all natural – or even organic – ingredients, believing they are purchasing a more nutritious pet food.

    But the fact is, even if these kibbles contain high quality ingredients with no preservatives, fillers or additives, they are still going through a cooking process which ultimately nullifies much of the nutritional value these quality ingredients would have contributed.

    The kibble is left with proteins that have been denatured, enzymes that are rendered inactive, and any natural, beneficial microflora (good bacteria) are no longer viable.

    These components are all extremely important and provide a synergistic effect for the complete digestion, absorption and assimilation of nutrients from the food.

    [NOTE] Get our Free Raw Feeding Videos and start your dog on the path to ultimate health today!

    Synthetic Fortification
    Manufacturers try to add back some of the lost nutritional value with synthetic vitamins and minerals so their formulas comply with AAFCO standards and they can call their food “complete and balanced” on their label. However, studies show that these synthetic vitamins can actually cause more harm than good to our pets, because the body cannot completely utilize them and instead it will processes them as a foreign substance, causing more stress to the liver and kidneys. 2

    Sadly, our environment is already saturated with many pollutants and toxins which we cannot avoid. Why not take control and avoid the ones we can, for both ourselves and our pets?

    In order to defend against these environmental pollutants, our pets’ bodies need a strong, well established, healthy immune system. The best way we can power our pets’ immune system is with whole, live, nutrient dense, raw foods. 2, 8

    A raw, species appropriate diet is the best defense we can give our pets to thrive and maximize their opportunity for a long, healthy life. As caretakers of these amazing companion animals who unconditionally enhance our lives, we feel that it is not only fair to provide this to them, but rather our responsibility.

    References

    1. Mills, Milton R., MD. The Comparative Anatomy of Eating. Nov. 2009. News: November 2009 - Vegsource.com.
    2. Knueven, Doug, DVM, CVA, CAC. The Holistic Health Guide, Natural Care for the Whole Dog. (2008).
    3. Lippert, Gerard, DVM and Sapy, Bruno, DVM. Relation Be- tween the Domestic Dogs’ Well-Being and Life Expectancy. (2003).
    4. Venier, Marta and Hites, Ronald. Flame Retardants in the Serum of Pet Dogs and in Their Food. Environ. Sci. Technol. 2011, 45 (10):4602-4608.
    5. Pasternak, Henry, DVM, CVA. Healing Pets with Nature’s Miracle Cures. (2001): 13, 63-80.
    6. Felton, J.S., M. Jägerstad, M.G. Knize, K. Skog, K. Waka- bayashi, Contents in Foods, Beverages and Tobacco, in: M. Na- gao, T. Sugimura (Eds.), Food Borne Carcinogens: Heterocyclic Amines, Wiley, West Sussex, 2000, pp. 31–71.
    7. Knize, M.G, Salmon, C.P., Felton, J.S. Mutagenic Activity and Heterocyclic Amine Carcinogens in Commercial Pet Foods. Mutagenic Research/Genetic Toxicology and Environmental Mutagenesis. August 2003 539 (1-2): 195-201.6.
    8. Rohrmann, S., Hermann, S. and Linseisen, J. Heterocyclic Aro- matic Amine Intake Increases Colorectal Adenoma Risk. Am J Clin Nutr. May 2009 89 (5): 1418-24.
    Roxanne Stone MSc

    Roxanne earned her master’s degree in Nutrition and Food Science with a minor in Chemistry from Utah State University. Roxanne worked within the human food industry for over 12 years in research, product development, and quality assurance. Disenchanted with many of the conventional practices of our modern food industry, she started her own food science consulting firm in 2008. She made the transition to the pet food world while consulting for Answers Pet Food, and has since become a full time partner at Answers. Roxanne is a member of the Weston A. Price Foundation and the Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund which are dedicated to restoring nutrient-dense foods to the American diet through education, research and activism. Roxanne and her husband live on their family farm in southern Oregon where they care for a small organic garden. Ame, their three year old Malamute, loves to roam the farm, find special hiding places to bury bones and chase the bull frogs back into their pond.
     
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  13. Roman the Doberman

    Roman the Doberman New Member

    Wow this was really helpful thanks again I have heard raw is the way to go no matter kibble is cheaper for sure and easier thank you
     
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  14. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber


    All I can say is do your research and feed the food your pets do good on.

    Real Raw Biologically Appropriate Foods you will get more benefits from than feeding Processed Kibble.

    Anyway pet Kibbles have only been around for a little over 100yrs.

    From when they first came to market I'm sure they had much better ingredients. Also there was not such an overuse of Pesticides. Which are sprayed on our plants and grains back then as they are used today! Especially Glyphosate sprayed on Corn, Wheat, Soy and other crops. Also the use of GMO's.

    Now Kibbles are mostly plant ingredients and not Named Meats and Organs. Lots of foods have the first ingredient as a named meat like Chicken Meal or Beef Meal and other meals. But after that they are Grains and other plants!

    For a long time I thought Champion Foods was the best food. The first 10-12 ingredients of Origen were Named Meats. But since the opening of their new plant in Kentucky a few years ago. Now they are having issues.


    Now its all about boosting Protein levels using Grains and other plants.
     
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  15. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    @Doberman Gang
    I will be waiting for a rebuttal on what I posted and not just a rating of Funny. :thumbsup2:
     
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  16. Antman408

    Antman408 $ Forum Donor $

    Lmao!
     
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  17. Dogs4Life

    Dogs4Life Member

    Our breeder had their pups on 4health and we've kept Zeus on it ever since. Our rescue whom we have had and Zeus have not had any issues with it. My honest opinion is... if I had the time, energy, funds to try the raw diet I would. However, since being a little child our dogs were always fed kibble (and table scraps) and never once had any health issues, skin issues, allergies, etc... (no matter the brand of food). One lived to be around 12 yrs old and my lab was finally put down @ 17 yrs old because he was having such a hard time getting around.

    Now grant it I'm talking about kibble from 30 + years ago

    Just my .02

    Do your research and best of luck!!
     
  18. AresMyDobie

    AresMyDobie Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Lol I mean I can eat like shit and not gain weight, doesn’t mean I am getting anything out of it. Just means I have a better metabolism then some and I also don’t eat all that much.
    Body by raw though C9EFFC08-13D8-44D7-AF87-823613101F9A.jpeg 7BCBED1C-0200-4829-8997-46977E2F1F88.jpeg
     
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