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food choice

Discussion in 'Doberman Nutritional Care' started by Alexaraee93, May 9, 2019.

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  1. Alexaraee93

    Alexaraee93 New Member

    is chicken kibble good for a Doberman for some reason I always fed ace bison and venision but it gave him very soft poop!! from taste of the wild. now I switched to Merrick Chicken and sweet potato... and his poop is very healthy... I just feel like chicken isn't great for them, any suggestions? he is now 10 months.

     
  2. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    We feed a chicken based food (Fromm Classic Adult) that both dogs do well on. We've also fed fish based. Chicken is easy on the tummy, I think (we feed boiled chicken when they're not feeling well), and generally a cheaper food (a 31lb bag of food costs us 41.99 on petflow.com and lasts 3-4 weeks).

    We don't feed Grain Free and try to avoid: peas, lentils, beans, legumes, and potatoes until this possible correlation between these ingredients and DCM comes to a better conclusion. You could drive yourself mad going through all the foods out there so educate yourself (which you are doing!) and find the best you can for your price range and what he does well on.

    I'm curious as to why you have that thought? Something you heard/read? Because it's "boring" (haha!)?
     
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  3. Alexaraee93

    Alexaraee93 New Member

    thanks a lot!! I heard from a few people chicken isn't great but i guess ill stick with it!! and is there a reason you don't do grain free?
     
  4. Dnetmd

    Dnetmd $ Premium Subscriber $

    That is a beautiful Doberman in your profile pic! I can't deal with all the puppy cuteness we've been having on here lately. No food suggestions here. I'm still on a chicken kibble that my breeder had her on. Kind of scared to change it for the reason you mentioned above. I'm still scarred from a bout of diarrhea she had a month ago.
     
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  5. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    (someone will correct me if I misspeak but) very generally, 'grain free' foods use a lot of peas, lentils, beans, legumes, and potato to make up for the missing grains. I'm not sure if something has been discovered to NOT link those ingredients to DCM in breeds where it's not generally seen (golden retrievers I think were the main focus) but there are foods without them (in the top ten ingredients at least) so that's what we choose because it makes me feel better.

    we do the best we can with the knowledge we have knowing that it could change.
     
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  6. JanS

    JanS DCF Owner Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    It all varies from dog to dog. We used to feed the TOTW High Prairie but it seems they do better on the TOTW Wetlands formula.
     
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  7. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    In raw feeding circles, chickens (that aren’t raised free range, organic, and all that) are considered a bad protein due to their living conditions, something about high inflammation. Same goes for pigs/pork but they have the additional problem of too much Omega 6 in them. We limit chicken in Kaiser’s food but will give him pork pieces from our human supplies on occasion.
     
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  8. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

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  9. Antman408

    Antman408 $ Forum Donor $

    I feed raw and avoid any chicken product. I’m not sure on kibble but I fed kibble for around 3 months and it made my dog sick.

    Maybe look into raw feeding?

    @strykerdobe is the guru of information in these parts so maybe he can chime in.
     
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  10. Antman408

    Antman408 $ Forum Donor $

    I’ve never had an issue with pork, I feed pork loin and organs and was recommended to me. Can you link me to any info on the pork?
     
  11. My2Girls

    My2Girls Notable member

    I’m glad this was brought up. I was going to start a thread on ranking proteins. I’m on a kibble with rotating proteins. And I have the toughest time deciding what to order every 3 weeks. How would y’all rank proteins from best to feed to worst?
    The brand we’re on has the following:
    Chicken
    Turkey
    Beef
    Venison
    Sardines
    Turkey and salmon
    Pork
    Lamb
    They’re all around 32-38% protein.
     
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  12. Tropicalbri's

    Tropicalbri's $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I will type up the articles on Grain Free Diets, BEG diets and the relationship to DCM in Golden Retrievers, however they are now finding cases in GSP and Porties.
    There is something they feel with the legumes, chick peas, etc. and blocking the dogs ability to digest and use Taurine. Most dry dog foods carry only the minimum requirements of vitamins and minerals, omegas and other dietary needs of the animal.
     
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  13. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    It’s in the same link above. She starts off talking about why chicken is bad and moves on to eliminating pork from her raw fed dog diet as well.
     
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  14. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Will have to get back to this. On vacation and drinking right now and going to dinner.
    :martini::martini::martini::beer::beer:
     
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  15. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    If I find the article. Some grains and veggies have anti-nutrients which if not cooked properly can block absorption.
    I still think dogs should not be eating all of the Grains and veggies they put in dog foods. Most of the Protein is coming from these and not Meat!
    They should eat Meat, Fat, Organs and Bone.
     
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  16. Alexaraee93

    Alexaraee93 New Member

    Im noticing that Dobermans have very delicate stomaches !! I guess chicken it is for our two lol
     
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  17. Alexaraee93

    Alexaraee93 New Member

    THANKS ALL FOR THE SUGGESTIONS !!
     
  18. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber


    They can have sensitive stomachs and that can be a real PITA.
    I guessing you did hear something not so positive about feeding chicken. I don't think that's because it's bad per se, more because of the risk of developing an allergy. One of the many reasons I feed a rotation diet. Chicken is in lots of different kibbles because it is one of the cheaper proteins.




    Try not to make it too hard for yourself. I just try not to put too much poultry together because it's at the top of the list for allergies.
     
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  19. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Could not find the article I read about the antinutrients. It was in Dogs Naturally Magazine.
    I do have them at home. Will have to wait til Sunday.

    This will give you an idea on what they are.
    Not the whole article

    How to Reduce Antinutrients in Foods

    How to Reduce Antinutrients in Foods


    Nutrients in plants are not always easily digested.

    This is because plants may contain antinutrients.

    These are plant compounds that reduce the absorption of nutrients from the digestive system.

    They are of a particular concern in societies that base their diets largely on grains and legumes.

    This article reviews several simple ways to reduce the amount of antinutrients in foods.

    In some cases, they can be eliminated almost completely.

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    1, 2, 3).

    The most widely studied antinutrients include:

    • Phytate (phytic acid): Mainly found in seeds, grains and legumes, phytate reduces the absorption of minerals from a meal. These include iron, zinc, magnesium and calcium (4).
    • Tannins: A class of antioxidant polyphenols that may impair the digestion of various nutrients (5).
    • Lectins: Found in all food plants, especially in seeds, legumes and grains. Some lectins may be harmful in high amounts, and interfere with the absorption of nutrients (6, 7).
    • Protease inhibitors: Widely distributed among plants, especially in seeds, grains and legumes. They interfere with protein digestion by inhibiting digestive enzymes.
    • Calcium oxalate: The primary form of calcium in many vegetables, such as spinach. The calcium bound to oxalate is poorly absorbed (8, 9).
    Bottom Line: The most important antinutrients are phytate, tannins, protease inhibitors, calcium oxalate and lectins.

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    water overnight to improve their nutritional value (10).

    Most of the antinutrients in these foods are found in the skin. Since many antinutrients are water-soluble, they simply dissolve when foods are soaked.
    In legumes, soaking has been found to decrease phytate, protease inhibitors, lectins, tannins and calcium oxalate.

    For example, a 12-hour soak reduced the phytate content of peas by up to 9% (11).

    Another study found that soaking pigeon peas for 6-18 hours decreased lectins by 38-50%, tannins by 13-25% and protease inhibitors by 28-30% (12).

    However, the reduction of antinutrients may depend on the type of legume. In kidney beans, soybeans and faba beans, soaking reduces protease inhibitors only very slightly (13, 14, 15).

    Not only is soaking useful for legumes, leafy vegetables can also be soaked to reduce some of their calcium oxalate (16).

    Soaking is typically used in combination with other methods, such as sprouting, fermenting and cooking.

    oking.

    Bottom Line: Soaking legumes in water overnight may reduce phytate, protease inhibitors, lectins and tannins. However, the effect depends on the type of legume. Soaking may also decrease oxalates in leafy vegetables.

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    17).
    Sprouting takes a few days, and may be initiated by a few simple steps:

    1. Begin by rinsing the seeds to remove all debris, dirt and soil.
    2. Soak the seeds for 2-12 hours in cool water. The soaking time depends on the type of seed.
    3. Rinse them thoroughly in water.
    4. Drain as much water as possible and place the seeds in a sprouting vessel, also called a sprouter. Make sure to place it out of direct sunlight.
    5. Repeat rinsing and draining 2-4 times. This should be done regularly, or once every 8-12 hours.
    During sprouting, changes take place within the seed that lead to the degradation of antinutrients such as phytate and protease inhibitors.

    Sprouting has been shown to reduce phytate by 37-81% in various types of grains and legumes (18, 19, 20).

    There also seems to be a slight decrease in lectins and protease inhibitors during sprouting (21).


    Bottom Line: Sprouting reduces phytate in grains and legumes, and may slightly degrade lectins and protease inhibitors.

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    yogurt, cheese, wine, beer, coffee, cocoa and soy sauce.

    Another good example of fermented food is sourdough bread.

    Making of sourdough effectively degrades antinutrients in the grains, leading to increased availability of nutrients (17, 22, 23).

    In fact, sourdough fermentation is more effective at reducing antinutrients in grains than yeast fermentation in typical bread (24, 25).


    In various grains and legumes, fermentation effectively degrades phytate and lectins (26, 27, 28, 29).

    For example, fermenting pre-soaked brown beans for 48 hours caused an 88% reduction in phytate (30).

    Bottom Line: Fermentation of grains and legumes leads to a significant reduction in phytate and lectins.

    Overview
    Below is an overview of the main antinutrients and effective ways to eliminate them.

    • Phytate (phytic acid): Soaking, sprouting, fermentation.
    • Lectins: Soaking, boiling, heating, fermentation.
    • Tannins: Soaking, boiling.
    • Protease inhibitors: Soaking, sprouting, boiling.
    • Calcium oxalate: Soaking, boiling.
    Take Home Message
    Antinutrients can significantly reduce the nutritional value of many plant foods.

    Luckily, they can be degraded with a few simple methods such as heating, boiling, soaking, sprouting and fermenting.

     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
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  20. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Ok I found the article about Antinutrients.
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    BF0FA673-2CDA-4426-9A90-CB4629DA4472.jpeg
     
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