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Fawn doberman temperament question

Dasz88

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Hi everyone,

Gilly and I met a fawn doberman yesterday (I've never seen one before). He was beautiful, suuuuuper light colored, almost translucent. However, I feel a little bad saying this, but that beautiful boy was 4 years old and he was still the biggest bag of nerves I've ever seen in a doberman! Gilly as a 6 month old doberteen hyper butt was so much better behaved and less fearful. I think the fawn doberman had good, loving owners, and we talked a little-- they definitely were responsible and had trainers and such.

You know how albino dobermans can have health and temperament issues? Are fawn dobermans related to albinos, or are they also z factor usually? Is that why they are so light, an interplay of normal and albino genes? Are fawn dobermans known for being more high strung?

(Also no shade to any fawn doberman owners! They are so beautiful! I was just surprised in how different this one dog's temperament was when compared to most dobies (red and black) I've ever met- it could totally be a one off!).

(Also also no shade to z factor dogs, although they shouldn't be bred. Gilly is z factor on one side, even though his mom is actually negative for the albino OA gene, and i have 10 generations of his breed and there is no albino). His breeder was up front about it and showed me the embark panel showing he was negative for the OA gene, but I didnt really know what that was or care when i got him. I won't ever be breeding gilly, though!)
 

Ravenbird

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Good observation on your part. There are some good, rock solid fawns out there, I'm sure. But, I've noticed in my lifetime - mostly involved in horses, that when breeders breed more for color (or for any other trait that has nothing to do with temperament or physical health) than anything else a lot of things begin to slip, mostly temperament and health.
Are fawn dobermans related to albinos, or are they also z factor usually?
I can't answer that without looking it up, but there is what they call a Dilute Gene involved. I think the z factor is only white/albinos. Blue & Fawn are accepted colors in AKC. Some Doberman organizations - maybe FCI? - don't allow any except black or red.
 

Panama

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No, fawn has nothing to do with Albino or Z factor. Fawn is the dilute of red (as blue is the dilute of black).
We had a fawn rescue/adopted dobe, and she'd be the first one to greet a stranger. She wasn't shy or timid. She was such a sweet girl.
 

Oh Little Oji

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Good observation on your part. There are some good, rock solid fawns out there, I'm sure. But, I've noticed in my lifetime - mostly involved in horses, that when breeders breed more for color (or for any other trait that has nothing to do with temperament or physical health) than anything else a lot of things begin to slip, mostly temperament and health.

I can't answer that without looking it up, but there is what they call a Dilute Gene involved. I think the z factor is only white/albinos. Blue & Fawn are accepted colors in AKC. Some Doberman organizations - maybe FCI? - don't allow any except black or red.
Great observation regarding breeding for color. Makes sense that other aspects of the animal would suffer.

I've historically been quite skeptical of any notion of a dog's color affecting its temperament, however, I recently found the following article regarding the Black Russian Terrier:


a couple excerpts:

...the geneticists noticed a correlation between black dogs with maximum pigmentation and a sound temperament in comparison to light pigmented, non-black dogs...

Further, Dr. Eugene Yerusalimsky (world known dog expert, international judge, author of Russian and FCI breed standards, author and international lecturer on canine biomechanics) wrote: “For the black color, the standard requires maximum pigmentation of the coat, nose, eyelids, eyes, gums and lips. This is because the direct selection for maximum pigmentation is an indirect selection for both a strong nervous system and a stable temperament.”
 

Ravenbird

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Those are interesting excerpts - I wouldn't think more black pigment would = better temperament, but I'll read the whole article later.

And as Panama said, and as we all know, there are some very good dogs with excellent temperaments of all colors. I was basically referring to BYB who are pushing "rare colors" to grab uninformed buyers. And they do nothing but breed for color, ignoring type & temperament. And it's not just color; In Thoroughbred horses, if it's a big stakes winner, it'll be in the breeding shed no matter how crazy it might have been to break and train. There have been notoriously vicious winners that passed on the crazy to the offspring. The hunter-jumper people will steer clear of those names in a pedigree.
 

Panama

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Yeah, breeders that breed specifically FOR the dilutes aren't anyone I would particularly deal with or recommend.

Dilutes will show up with ethical/responsible breeders. It depends on the pair they've bred (both have to carry the dilute gene to produce it), but they don't breed specifically for dilute, but try to steer away from the possibility of producing them.
 

JanS

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However, I feel a little bad saying this, but that beautiful boy was 4 years old and he was still the biggest bag of nerves I've ever seen in a doberman! Gilly as a 6 month old doberteen hyper butt was so much better behaved and less fearful. I think the fawn doberman had good, loving owners, and we talked a little-- they definitely were responsible and had trainers and such.
Every dog varies a bit and some can just be a little more high strung. Even though he has loving owners and trainers if there is a sense of any sort of tenseness in the home a dog is going to pick up on it; especially this breed when they're so in tune to everything.
 

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