kaloric
Well-Known Member
Kaiya's Embark results came back.
I'd strongly encourage folks to get these tests done and share their pups' Embark and/or VGL results, regardless of what they show. It's not a competition, it's about knowledge, comparing anecdotes about how our dogs' stories are being written, and if there are any indications that some of the building block combinations work better than others. It's not about shaming or naming or being anxious about a dog's future because there are maybe some causes for concern. And of course this goes for breeders too, especially if they're trying to do better, the general shaming culture has to stop.
There was nothing overly surprising, and mostly good news from a genetic diversity standpoint. She's 100% Doberman, even though I'd swear she must be at least 50% coyote.
There was only one concern, which is that she's a carrier for vWD, and it'd be more surprising if she was vWD clear. All other known, suspected, and coincidence markers were clear. I harbor no delusions that there are still high odds she'll develop DCM, simply because she's a Doberman and there's no such thing as "testing DCM-free" until the dog makes it to advanced age without heart troubles.
The more interesting meat and bones of the test, what I really wanted, was also interesting.
One thing I wanted was a IR number and that visualization, but I suppose this is close enough. What this does show that isn't included in the genetic diversity assessment from VGL is the curve for all purebred dogs. That's pretty frustrating for the breed as a whole, even though she's still on the "more outbred" end of the spectrum for Dobermans, that Dobermans in general have most of their population COI weight around 50%, where the average purebred population has apparently dropped-off to a negligible number of members with that much in the way of ROH (Runs of Homozygosity) and fixation at various gene loci.
I find the small bell curve that her COI percentage sits in to be rather interesting. The primary bell curve, and mean of the population is more around 45-50% COI, but the little one that peaks around 27% must have some significance. Is that the population Euro-North American hybrid Dobes? Is that just representative of casual/accidental breeders in general?
For reference, this is similar to what I was hoping I'd see in terms of a current snapshot of Kaiya's comparison to the rest of the Dobe population; this was Kira's from 2017, the first IR visualization is what I'm talking about. I'm guessing Kaiya is also somewhere around an IR of -0.1, in that she's still well below the mean of the population. The graphs look a bit different, but I'm guessing they're using the same underlying data and methods, one just looks at the bigger picture across purebreds in general while the other is zoomed-in on the Doberman genetic COI curves.
Lastly, here's the visual representation of the homozygosity across Kaiya's genome.
I'd like to have the specifics and DLA haplotypes, but they really only discussed one general haplotype, haplogroup A1d, haplotype A247/A522.
I do not know how this compares to, say, the second visualization and haplotypes from the following, which, for the sake of variety, was Kor's VGL diversity assessment.
Yes, he was substantially more inbred than Kira. He had no diversity in DLA haplotypes. In light of him dying of CHF way too young (8.5 years of age), I do kind of wonder if this might be a factor, as immune responses damaging the heart is one hypothesis about DCM.
I'm tempted to go ahead and get the VGL diversity assessment done on Kaiya as well, it is a bit disappointing to have the data provided be slightly differing in the details provided. I did not get Embark tests for either Kor or Kira.
HOWEVER, all the nitpicks with the data presentation aside, I'm pleased with how comprehensive the assessment is, and with Kaiya's results overall. This is even better than I'd expected or hoped for. While pedigree history and health info about her ancestors would be nice to have, I'm cautiously optimistic for her future based on the most basic "what's in front of me" results and observations alone. Only time will tell how her story goes. But I will say, and I hope some breeders will someday take note, because I'm pretty sure I'm not alone: If you focus on producing pups whose Embark profiles look like this, AND add that ancestral health history to mitigate some of the unknowns, I'd pay top dollar rather than slumming and patronizing casual & unintentional Dobe breeders. I don't care about names in pedigrees, I don't care about titles, I care about health, longevity, genetic diversity, temperament, and general correctness for the breed.
For a little more discussion of haplotypes and the crisis facing the Doberman, here's another good, short, scientific read, which itself has more links to the research. This is one of the many essays, studies, review papers, and the like, from professionals, which I feel are a call to action for all of us.
"An Update on the Genetic Status of the Doberman Pinscher (2017)"
From that review article/blog post, I can't agree more with this sentiment of Dr. Beuchat's:
It bears repeating over and over again as a mantra. The pet household is the foundation of the breed, everything else is secondary, and it's imperative that folks breeding Dobermans pull-out all the stops in fixing this, ribbons be damned. Genetic testing is only the tip of the iceberg. The results must be acted upon or they are pointless.
Beyond the little rant there, here are a couple of recent Red Devil photos, starting with crazy eye when she was feeling bitey and predatory. The other parts of the Embark test did identify her coat color and other phenotypes accurately. There wasn't one that associated red coat with being completely bonkers, maybe someday they'll find a genetic basis for what seems to be the common observation.
And one of her flopping in the grass again after zoomies. It's just so hard to get a good photo of her standing still. It's either a blur of red fur, tongue, and often teeth, or laying down to cool off.
I'd strongly encourage folks to get these tests done and share their pups' Embark and/or VGL results, regardless of what they show. It's not a competition, it's about knowledge, comparing anecdotes about how our dogs' stories are being written, and if there are any indications that some of the building block combinations work better than others. It's not about shaming or naming or being anxious about a dog's future because there are maybe some causes for concern. And of course this goes for breeders too, especially if they're trying to do better, the general shaming culture has to stop.
There was nothing overly surprising, and mostly good news from a genetic diversity standpoint. She's 100% Doberman, even though I'd swear she must be at least 50% coyote.
There was only one concern, which is that she's a carrier for vWD, and it'd be more surprising if she was vWD clear. All other known, suspected, and coincidence markers were clear. I harbor no delusions that there are still high odds she'll develop DCM, simply because she's a Doberman and there's no such thing as "testing DCM-free" until the dog makes it to advanced age without heart troubles.
The more interesting meat and bones of the test, what I really wanted, was also interesting.
One thing I wanted was a IR number and that visualization, but I suppose this is close enough. What this does show that isn't included in the genetic diversity assessment from VGL is the curve for all purebred dogs. That's pretty frustrating for the breed as a whole, even though she's still on the "more outbred" end of the spectrum for Dobermans, that Dobermans in general have most of their population COI weight around 50%, where the average purebred population has apparently dropped-off to a negligible number of members with that much in the way of ROH (Runs of Homozygosity) and fixation at various gene loci.
I find the small bell curve that her COI percentage sits in to be rather interesting. The primary bell curve, and mean of the population is more around 45-50% COI, but the little one that peaks around 27% must have some significance. Is that the population Euro-North American hybrid Dobes? Is that just representative of casual/accidental breeders in general?
For reference, this is similar to what I was hoping I'd see in terms of a current snapshot of Kaiya's comparison to the rest of the Dobe population; this was Kira's from 2017, the first IR visualization is what I'm talking about. I'm guessing Kaiya is also somewhere around an IR of -0.1, in that she's still well below the mean of the population. The graphs look a bit different, but I'm guessing they're using the same underlying data and methods, one just looks at the bigger picture across purebreds in general while the other is zoomed-in on the Doberman genetic COI curves.
Lastly, here's the visual representation of the homozygosity across Kaiya's genome.
I'd like to have the specifics and DLA haplotypes, but they really only discussed one general haplotype, haplogroup A1d, haplotype A247/A522.
I do not know how this compares to, say, the second visualization and haplotypes from the following, which, for the sake of variety, was Kor's VGL diversity assessment.
Yes, he was substantially more inbred than Kira. He had no diversity in DLA haplotypes. In light of him dying of CHF way too young (8.5 years of age), I do kind of wonder if this might be a factor, as immune responses damaging the heart is one hypothesis about DCM.
I'm tempted to go ahead and get the VGL diversity assessment done on Kaiya as well, it is a bit disappointing to have the data provided be slightly differing in the details provided. I did not get Embark tests for either Kor or Kira.
HOWEVER, all the nitpicks with the data presentation aside, I'm pleased with how comprehensive the assessment is, and with Kaiya's results overall. This is even better than I'd expected or hoped for. While pedigree history and health info about her ancestors would be nice to have, I'm cautiously optimistic for her future based on the most basic "what's in front of me" results and observations alone. Only time will tell how her story goes. But I will say, and I hope some breeders will someday take note, because I'm pretty sure I'm not alone: If you focus on producing pups whose Embark profiles look like this, AND add that ancestral health history to mitigate some of the unknowns, I'd pay top dollar rather than slumming and patronizing casual & unintentional Dobe breeders. I don't care about names in pedigrees, I don't care about titles, I care about health, longevity, genetic diversity, temperament, and general correctness for the breed.
For a little more discussion of haplotypes and the crisis facing the Doberman, here's another good, short, scientific read, which itself has more links to the research. This is one of the many essays, studies, review papers, and the like, from professionals, which I feel are a call to action for all of us.
"An Update on the Genetic Status of the Doberman Pinscher (2017)"
From that review article/blog post, I can't agree more with this sentiment of Dr. Beuchat's:
It bears repeating over and over again as a mantra. The pet household is the foundation of the breed, everything else is secondary, and it's imperative that folks breeding Dobermans pull-out all the stops in fixing this, ribbons be damned. Genetic testing is only the tip of the iceberg. The results must be acted upon or they are pointless.
Beyond the little rant there, here are a couple of recent Red Devil photos, starting with crazy eye when she was feeling bitey and predatory. The other parts of the Embark test did identify her coat color and other phenotypes accurately. There wasn't one that associated red coat with being completely bonkers, maybe someday they'll find a genetic basis for what seems to be the common observation.
And one of her flopping in the grass again after zoomies. It's just so hard to get a good photo of her standing still. It's either a blur of red fur, tongue, and often teeth, or laying down to cool off.
