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Egg shells

Discussion in 'Doberman Nutritional Care' started by Nutz, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Morning K
    So here are a few photos of Grumble and her bone...

    How I have the bones cut..
    grumble 17 week typical cut bone.jpg

    Grumble and her bone
    grumble 17 week typical cut bone.jpg grumble 17 week with her bone.jpg

    Me reaching down and taking her bone
    grumble 17 week me taking the bone from her.jpg


    She relinquished it without any resistance, so I'm more than happy with the heirachy thing.
     
    • Wow x 1
  2. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    That bone is a beast! What animal? How long do you let her have something like that? I have a bison hoof or knuckle or something that is like this but smaller. Haven't given it yet as I'm not sure when to take it away.

    I use that as my test too. Everything that the dog has is "mine" to take back any time.
     
  3. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Hi K

    I get both sections of the leg of the cow.
    Then I have them cut through the knee joint, then down the length of both the top and bottom sections, then each section gets cut in half. <8 pieces in total>

    I throw all 8 pieces out at one time to stop rivalry, and it pretty much lasts a week.

    I'm happy with the sand and stuff getting on there... It's quite natural, and after 3 or so days there ain't much in the way of meat, and it's just a chew thing.....

    Quite funny to see how they gather & sneaky-steal them from each other..
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    The free feeding is an interesting concept. It makes sense if the dog is used to not inhaling their food. Does Grumble actually leave food behind?

    If I give K a treat ball full of treats when he's full, he still works it. Other times he will continue rolling the empty ball just in case some thing falls out. But then he is fed just once a day, so maybe that makes him more keen to eat whenever he can.

    What do you think of just one meal a day? Kaiser is raw fed but he finishes the whole bowl in one go. Some people even fast their dogs which I have not yet done.
     
  5. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Morning K :ntmy:

    I give the treat meal <baby-formulae stage 3 + meat saw-dust + 2 raw eggs> early morning, when I put my "old-man's-breakfast" <tea toast & tablets> together.

    Every morning Grumble leaves a small bit behind, then I give Scruffy permission <TAKE> to clean the bowl..

    There are 2 lot's of kibble. One big bowl of adult kibble in the front and one bowl of <currently, puppy> kibble in the dog kennel at my front door, at the back of the house.

    Every morning I check that there is some there, and there always is. I need to replenish, but there is still kibble in the bowl.

    So to answer the question, yes she eats to satisfy her immediate need, not to satisfy her need until the next feed time.

    I'm happier with this, because life is life and there may be an instance when I get home very late.... That's OK, I don't HAVE TO get home to "feed the dogs"... One less thing to worry about when the brown stuff hits the fan...

    FASTING DOGS: - <personally> I'd never, ever, ever do that..... :nono: :thumbdown: Not even for punnishment. There is a trust boundry that should never be crossed, and with-holding food / water /shelter / warmth for whatever reason.... That's crossing that boundry.:nono::nono:

    As pack leader, providing those things is your moral duty. How can you expect your dog to utterly believe and trust in your leadership if you, don't 100 %, meet it's most basic of needs.....

    Unless there is a medical reason <EG prior to an operation> I cannot see any justifiable reason for with-holding food... That is just wrong.. Won't ever do it to a child, even more so, won't ever do it to a dog

    To deal with obesity / overweight, adjust the diet and limit the amount of food, BUT spread it over shorter time-frames. But withdraw? never....

    In my opinion, How to deal with feeding is a decision that needs to be thought through BEFORE the dog comes into the picture.
    I expect it would be problematic <but not impossable to manage> to change from the one regime to the other. Dogs get used to "the way things are"... That is their life as they know it, and accept it as such..

    So, me <again my personal opinion> I see treat-stuff as fun things, and although it's food, I don't equate it to food, I equate it to toys and fun stuff....

    How much you willing to bet there gonna be a ton of critisism and yelling and backlash about my way after this post?.... Being Africaans by home lalguage, I hope my English is adequate....
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    Your English is totally fine. I agree with most of this. But aren't wild dogs used to not eating everyday?

    I believe that Dobes are way more adaptable than most ppl think. So I don't worry too much about routine. How do you feel about routine? I dislike routine. However, my hb is rather regimental.

    I would not expect backlash here. I'm sure ppl will weigh in as soon as they can. But no one will be offensive.
     
    • Appreciation Appreciation x 1
  7. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    I don’t think there is a right & a wrong here.

    Personally, I’m not a fan of strict regimen.... My life is too random. Dealing with “the moment” has a much higher priority than sticking to a regiment, but that’s just me.

    I would think that, how-ever you are would simply transpose to your dog.

    If you are regimented, that’s ok and your dog’s going to be regimented. If, however you are not regimented, that’s also ok, and THAT will transpose into your dog.

    Dogs tend to accept “that’s the way it is” and adapt to whatever “it-is”

    For me, mostly, the usual things happen about the same time, but if it does not happen that way, I’m not that fussed about it.

    I would think that the more “randomly” things happen the more adaptable the dog’s likely to be

    Yip dogs in general are also pretty adaptable... Scruffy has a good general Idea when we get home and is usually waiting for us.

    Any help?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    So coming back to wild dogs.

    By wild dogs, I assume you are not referring to "ferral" dogs... IE domestic dogs that have become self sufficient /reverted to the wild ?

    Remember, the African wild dog (Which I assume you are referring to) are led by an Alpha FEMALE, and hunt in packs.

    BTW They are considered to be one of the most efficient hunters in the wild. IE have the highest kill rate of all african predators. Interesting that....

    They have a very strong pack bond, and will nurse each other's puppies, and bring back food to be re-gurgitated for the pups no matter whose pups they are.

    It's this extriemely strong pack bond that ensures their success in the wild.

    Yes, their eating (and breeding) habits are tuned to the availability of prey, and as such do not eat regularly, and there might be even extended periods that they don’t make a successful / adequate kill.

    BUT, That is “the way thing are” for them, and they are used to it, and their physiology has adapted to that way of life.

    Although the Alpha will partake in the hunt, that is not her prime job. Her job is to ensure pack unity, so the pack don’t expressly look to her for sustanance, they look to her to maintain the pack, which is, as I mentioned, the key to their success.

    But we are talking about domesticated dogs, and let’s be honest... How many of our dogs would actually survive in the wild? What breeds would be successful? Think Dobies would prosper?

    Much as I live the breed, I seriously doubt that... The wild.. It’s really harsh out there....

    Even where I go solo camping, Dogs are allowed..... Why?

    well the Ranger actually told me... Jokingly, but dead serious... Domestic dogs are considered prey.

    There are any number of Karakuls <type of wild cat> and jackals <about the size of a smaller GSD> that roam unhindered at night.... Even a brute male Dobie’s gonna get taken if faced by a pack of jackals....

    I think it’s not fair to “believe” that domestic dogs can be measured against wild dogs....

    Their entire breeding and physiology is completely different. They have come to rely on humans for their needs, and we have to step up to the plate that they have entrusted us with...

    Make sense?
     
  9. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    When I said wild dogs I was referring to the canine ancestors...so wolves? Lol I guess because we often refer back to how they were before being domesticated. Makes sense that the domestic dog can't be compared the same way. I definitely don't think my spoiled Kaiser would survive in the wild. I don't even think I would survive a night in my own backyard :spit:

    So while I'm picking your brain...what do you make of raised feeding stations? I agree that "in the wild" animals eat off the ground yet there's also the belief that raised feeders prevent bloat...
     
  10. Nutz

    Nutz Hot Topics Subscriber

    Top-o-the-mornin' ta ya K

    Ooooooo Picking my brains that be very slim pickings indeed! Something of the ilk of Grumble's bone after 2 weeks lying around, being bleached in the African sun and having been chewed on...:eek:

    Raised feeding stations and the influence of bloat, I cannot comment on. I have no experience with raised feeders, and I've also never had an incidence of bloat!

    Personally, and, unscientifically, my gut feeling is what probibly has a greater influence on the incidence of bloat is how rapidly, how much, and HOW <gulping large quantities in one each dive-my-nose-in-the-bowl> dogs, who are being fed once, eat in one go.

    Again, personally, if I was following a single feed egime I would rather feed twice, with a <for example> 1/2H breather in-between. I would also ensure food was completely moist / swelled out.

    From a physology perspective, I can't see how raised stations would reduce the risk. Bloat is a gastric condition where the intestines turn causing obstruction. I just can't see, how chewing food in an elevated or a head-down attitude would affect that.

    It probibly makes it more comfortable for the dog to eat, but then some dogs just lie down to eat....

    If I look at how the shelters operate, SPCA / Animal anti cruelty / Soweto animal rescue / HAWS..... Don't giggle.... Hartbeespoort Animal Welfare Society...... and many other's I know of, who have far greater knowledge resources on tap (medical and otherwise) as well as far more extensive experience than I have ........... I've never seen raised stations in any of their impounded / rescue / boarding or medical enclosures....

    Going back a while KUSA <kennel Union Of Soth Africa> registered De'-Lescaut Dobermans and KUSA registered Moorhaven skippertjies, which are highly respected dog breeders that I have had experiance with, did not have raised feeding stations...

    As a final nail in the coffin, how do the millitary / and service dogs get their food presented? This I don't know, but my rheumy right eye thinks not out of raised feeders.....

    So to put all of that together, my feeling is raised stations are a "nice to have, look darn good" but little else, and personally think that the "bloat" thing has been bandied about as a feeding station foobar..... You know.... I have knowledge in these matters.................

    BUT... I'm 100 % open to correction, if somebody can put fact's down on the table..
     
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