Ear posting/testing and crate training regression

Cindyzoo

New Member
I have two very different questions. First the "easy" one. I have a 9 month old dobie. Her ears were cropped at 8 weeks and posted as soon as the ears were healed. Her left ear has stood for months. Her right ear is another story. It has been tested up to two days and stood but then flopped over. Back up into posts for another month before testing. It would always stand initially when taking post out to change. A couple of weeks ago during post changing ear flopped immediately. Did that for a couple of changes (every 2 days, she is a master at shaking her head and the bottom coming out. The post is seated deeply into the ear and taped with three strips. She doesn't dig or scratch, just playing, shaking or rolling and getting ear caught under her head gets the bottom out every 2 or occasionally 3 days no matter what. She clearly has less bell than her left ear) My question is when should I test again and for how long? It has been close to 4 weeks since I have tested it.

Second and much more difficult question. First, my girl is "different". She has autistic like behaviors. (This is my 11th doberman and she is NOT like any others, nor any of my other dogs) I sent her to a board and train for 7 weeks with a very qualified trainer. There are many, many breakthroughs that I wasn't sure would ever happen. I would be writing a book if I went into all of it. She (to date) has been the most difficult and challenging dog my trainer has had. With that said, the biggest thing that is NOT going well is her crate. I started her in a crate at night from age 8 weeks. It went fairly well until she was about 5 months old. She started waking up earlier and earlier and potty needs wasn't the reason. (She was not in the room alone) It got to the point NO ONE was sleeping.. I can leave her out of the crate and she will sleep on the living room carpet all night and not make a peep. The first couple of nights back from the trainers (where she slept in a crate) were ok. She fusses anywhere from 1 minute to ten minutes when I first put her to bed after last potty run of the night. She slept til about 5 the first couple of nights which is when I am up anyway. Then she started waking up in the middle of the night and slight fussing but would go back to sleep.
It has been increasingly earlier and earlier. A couple of nights the vocalizing (she has very unusual and grating vocalizing) starts about 1 am and simply doesn't quit. I have a fan and a google nest playing music (jazz which is what the trainer plays) going all night. Walking back in the room (no one is in this room) to comfort does NOT work, only makes her more frantic. She has had plenty of exercise and she IS tired. It's all I can do to wake her up to take her to bed as she has fallen asleep in the living room with my husband and myself in the same room.
When I get her up in the morning she is trained beautifully that she has to be quiet and stay for the crate door to come open and then waits for "ok" to come out. ANY thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
I should note she also has developed major eating issues. I used to feed her in the kennel with the door open, put treats in here and there. It does NO good to put a kong or anything else in the kennel. She will not touch anything in the kennel. I also have a K9 Balistics bed so it is soft but she can't chew it. So suggestions of making it a fun place aren't probably going to work here. Thanks again
 
Second and much more difficult question. First, my girl is "different". She has autistic like behaviors. (This is my 11th doberman and she is NOT like any others, nor any of my other dogs) I sent her to a board and train for 7 weeks with a very qualified trainer.
A friend of mine is a person who studies mental/emotional disorders in humans, and she told me that dogs share every single one that humans can have, I believe her, so I would say it's plausible that your dog may indeed be autistic in a canine form.
I should note she also has developed major eating issues. I used to feed her in the kennel with the door open, put treats in here and there. It does NO good to put a kong or anything else in the kennel. She will not touch anything in the kennel. I also have a K9 Balistics bed so it is soft but she can't chew it. So suggestions of making it a fun place aren't probably going to work here. Thanks again
Do you know if the trainer had different behavior expectations for her in her kennel than you do? I am wondering if she just was trained to not touch anything in it during her time there?
I can leave her out of the crate and she will sleep on the living room carpet all night and not make a peep.
Is this plausible for your household? To just let her sleep in the living room? Seems like you might all (including the dog) benefit from normal sleeping again if her being in the living room accomplishes that. I don't want to say you should give up on your training or lifestyle ideals, just thinking that sleep is important too. You'll make good choices for you, but this is one I might cave on (if she's not destroying things or in danger of eating something that might hurt her), especially knowing her state of "different" and she may just have other needs?

I don't know. It's a tough one. I feel for you.

I am still asking others for ear help, so I can't help you on that one. Someone probably will, though.
 
My question is when should I test again and for how long? It has been close to 4 weeks since I have tested it.
I would just test gradually starting with maybe an hour and moving up from there if it stays solid in that amount of time.
A couple of weeks ago during post changing ear flopped immediately.
If this is the case they probably can't be tested for a while yet.
 
At 9 months, depending on how thick and type of crop- show?, those ears should be getting really close if you have been consistent and not testing so much that they have broken over numerous times.

My question is when should I test again and for how long? It has been close to 4 weeks since I have tested it.
4 weeks in…I would test it now but make damn sure I am watching for any faltering. I may even go slowly with it, meaning to test it for 1hr then back in post, then next day test for two hours, then next day test three hours and then so on.

Just cannot allow them to break over.
 
Photos of her ears, in & out of posts would be most helpful. Especially if it's a long crop, they take longer and without the bell take more work to get to stand.

Not sure what to say about the crate situation. My puppy was more vocal and harder to deal with than any previous dog I'd known so I feel you about the challenges. I can't remember when I quit shutting the door on her crate at night, but she was in my bedroom and my bedroom door was shut, so she didn't have the whole house. She was about 10 months or so, I think. Like yours, she wouldn't touch a treat puzzle or any toys if she was locked in the crate. If she chews or destroys stuff, that's a game changer. Mine thankfully did not do that, so I was able to leave her door open with no worries. If her obedience is going well you can try leaving the door open but have a command taught to "go to bed" and "stay". If you simply want her to not vocalize in the middle of the night while crated, that's a tough one. My dog has never stopped vocalizing if she has something to say, crated or not.
 
I agree with @Katyusharocket…
Not questioning your 11 Doberman experience but why don’t you just let her sleep on living room carpet? I always encouraged mine to sleep out of the crate- made my family feel more secure knowing mine were free out of the crate.

Maybe she has matured into y’all’s bond and her being and she just wants to be closer to the family at night- not restricted to the crate. I don’t have anything against the crate, believe me that we used it alot in their younger years but hardly ever use it now.
 
Maybe she has matured into y’all’s bond and her being and she just wants to be closer the family at night
an important angle I hadn't even considered.
Not questioning your 11 Doberman experience
I also don't wish to question this, but...
It might be easy to think that "this was the way with the other 11 and it should work with the 12th". If the 12th is that different, she may need other ways of living life that are out of the other 11 dobies experiences? I hope you guys find your way. Post a pic of this girl please?...
 
@Cindyzoo what makes you think your dog is autistic? Dogs are binary in their thinking, good at pattern recognition and don't understand or have the capacity for emotion. So I would say all dogs could be described as autistic.

Maybe that’s why the best trainers are usually pretty awkward. They can truly see the world through the dogs eyes.
 
an important angle I hadn't even considered.

I also don't wish to question this, but...
It might be easy to think that "this was the way with the other 11 and it should work with the 12th". If the 12th is that different, she may need other ways of living life that are out of the other 11 dobies experiences? I hope you guys find your way. Post a pic of this girl please?...
Photos of her ears, in & out of posts would be most helpful. Especially if it's a long crop, they take longer and without the bell take more work to get to stand.

Not sure what to say about the crate situation. My puppy was more vocal and harder to deal with than any previous dog I'd known so I feel you about the challenges. I can't remember when I quit shutting the door on her crate at night, but she was in my bedroom and my bedroom door was shut, so she didn't have the whole house. She was about 10 months or so, I think. Like yours, she wouldn't touch a treat puzzle or any toys if she was locked in the crate. If she chews or destroys stuff, that's a game changer. Mine thankfully did not do that, so I was able to leave her door open with no worries. If her obedience is going well you can try leaving the door open but have a command taught to "go to bed" and "stay". If you simply want her to not vocalize in the middle of the night while crated, that's a tough one. My dog has never stopped vocalizing if she has something to say, crated or not.
Photos of her ears, in & out of posts would be most helpful. Especially if it's a long crop, they take longer and without the bell take more work to get to stand.

Not sure what to say about the crate situation. My puppy was more vocal and harder to deal with than any previous dog I'd known so I feel you about the challenges. I can't remember when I quit shutting the door on her crate at night, but she was in my bedroom and my bedroom door was shut, so she didn't have the whole house. She was about 10 months or so, I think. Like yours, she wouldn't touch a treat puzzle or any toys if she was locked in the crate. If she chews or destroys stuff, that's a game changer. Mine thankfully did not do that, so I was able to leave her door open with no worries. If her obedience is going well you can try leaving the door open but have a command taught to "go to bed" and "stay". If you simply want her to not vocalize in the middle of the night while crated, that's a tough one. My dog has never stopped vocalizing if she has something to say, crated or not.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6517.webp
    IMG_6517.webp
    29.8 KB · Views: 4
  • IMG_7361.webp
    IMG_7361.webp
    21.6 KB · Views: 4
  • IMG_7360.webp
    IMG_7360.webp
    16.3 KB · Views: 4
The picture of her standing is back in the middle of April during a test that I thought was going well. It wasn't.... The other two pictures are from yesterday. The picture where her ear is flopped over was right after I removed post. As I was getting the new one ready - see picture two. I hadn't seen responses yet, looked at some other folks ideas and decided to watch it. I watched it for the entire day, she had it up beautifully ALL day so I had decided I would put it up before bed so she wouldn't sleep on it without a post. Just that quick, boom it flops over....... UGH Now I feel like I have set everything back again. I have her on Vit C and calcium per breeders advice. I know it's hard to tell in these pictures but there is less bell on her right ear. It's not a super long crop. Thanks everyone.
 
A friend of mine is a person who studies mental/emotional disorders in humans, and she told me that dogs share every single one that humans can have, I believe her, so I would say it's plausible that your dog may indeed be autistic in a canine form.
Without a doubt your friend is correct. I am a retired veterinary technician and have seen a lot of dogs in my 65 years besides the ones I have owned. My dog had a very long set of issues that are definitely autistic like behaviors. My trainer has done marvelous things to get the correct responses, eliminating some behaviors etc. I seriously would be writing a book to go through it all. I do know there was not training to leave things alone in the crate. She had a different size crate/food dish and she was fed in her kennel at board and train.
Do you know if the trainer had different behavior expectations for her in her kennel than you do? I am wondering if she just was trained to not touch anything in it during her time there?

Is this plausible for your household? To just let her sleep in the living room? Seems like you might all (including the dog) benefit from normal sleeping again if her being in the living room accomplishes that. I don't want to say you should give up on your training or lifestyle ideals, just thinking that sleep is important too. You'll make good choices for you, but this is one I might cave on (if she's not destroying things or in danger of eating something that might hurt her), especially knowing her state of "different" and she may just have other needs?

I don't know. It's a tough one. I feel for you.
Thank you, it is a tough one. Some nights it would be fine to have her in the living room... IF she would stop trying to exercise my cats (it's a work in progress) but with grandkids visiting and our odd hours (farmers) it's not always possible. She does best with routine.
I am still asking others for ear help, so I can't help you on that one. Someone probably will, though.
 
I would just test gradually starting with maybe an hour and moving up from there if it stays solid in that amount of time.

If this is the case they probably can't be tested for a while yet.
I wish I would have seen this prior to another thread I read....... I wonder if I have set everything back again? UGH I am so upset with myself.... (I'm not sure how to put my reply without repeating to everyone, I'm a little rusty at the forum. I didn't understand the ear being flopped the minute I took it down (it did this a couple of weeks ago also) and then upright as could be ALL day- after the flop. That's why I thought it was ok to test it. I shouldn't have gone all day- even though it was fine/upright etc..... thoughts? Thanks so much!
 
I didn't understand the ear being flopped the minute I took it down (it did this a couple of weeks ago also) and then upright as could be ALL day- after the flop.
Ears can be so frustrating that way and it happened with our first Doberman too. It could be she slept on it funny. I wouldn't call that flopped in the latest photos so that's good. It just looks like they need more posting time.
 
Ears can be so frustrating that way and it happened with our first Doberman too. It could be she slept on it funny. I wouldn't call that flopped in the latest photos so that's good. It just looks like they need more posting time.
Oh what a relief to hear you don't think it looks flopped....... She didn't sleep on it tho- I watched like a hawk..... It's back up in a post (she doesn't mind) How long should I wait to "test" again? She is 9 months.... the other ear stood literally after 48 hours of posting. I continued for quite a while after that of course but it never ever flopped. I guess I am grateful I only have one to do. Thanks again!!
 
How long should I wait to "test" again?
I would personally go another couple weeks before testing again or you could wind up with a weak spot. I'd also try to leave the posts in for 4 or 5 days before reposting, unless they smell bad.
 
for the crating at night part... could you replace her crate with a baby gate or even a more substantial gate on the times she can't sleep in the living room? Confined, still, but not as close of a confinement? Could this be a compromise where everyone wins a little? I have hinged gates with latches in 3 different places in my house to keep who I want confined to where I want them to be...
 
I would personally go another couple weeks before testing again or you could wind up with a weak spot. I'd also try to leave the posts in for 4 or 5 days before reposting, unless they smell bad.
I would leave the posts 4 or 5 days IF she wouldn't shake them out on day 3...... They are deeply seated in the ear- she has less bell and I think that's the difference. She never shook the left post out..... Thank you!
 
Or how about using an x pen when she is in the livingroom sleeping? Not as confining as a crate, but will keep her from exercising the cats. Although you said she is very vocal....not sure it would work.
She looks like a beautiful dog....is she a red? Sorry for your frustration. Once they mature, it is so worth all the work!
 
@Cindyzoo what makes you think your dog is autistic? Dogs are binary in their thinking, good at pattern recognition and don't understand or have the capacity for emotion. So I would say all dogs could be described as autistic.

Maybe that’s why the best trainers are usually pretty awkward. They can truly see the world through the dogs eyes.
 

Back
Top