Discuss the breed standard(s)

[Dobs4ever]

Some examples of toplines and deviations from the ideal.



As you can see in the picture of Trotyl above who is SA dog not a NA dog you will see the extreme high withers and slope of the topline. You can see his pedigree here and it is mostly SA breeding that took the show ring by storm and became the latest big fad. http://www.dobequest.org/profile.php?DOGID=32700


So if you judged his topline based on the above illustrationsa where would you rate him???

The first dog in your photos appears to be is a USA bred dog by the looks of him.

Just to clarify the first "dog" is a bitch - Marienburg's Bond Girl - No wee wee

 

[Marinegeekswife]

Thank you for those illustrations Suzan. Those were very interesting and informative.

 

[Dobs4ever]

Correct Tuck up explained with examples above

Example of Rib Spring below

 

[Marko1962]

Thank you for taking the time to put all this info together, its all very informative and very helpful. It's not just helping me but many others I should imagine.

To answer your question regarding the SA dog I'd say he resembles the 'Excessive slope' diagram.

I'm going to see if I can scan the illustrations from this book by Andre Wilhelm by way of comparison.

 

[Dobs4ever]

That would be awesome - I just wish the FCI did an illustrated standard as the DPCA did. It is a matter of training the eye to what you are really looking at and how it moves. While the SA dogs became very popular their movement was something else. That is why you will hear about so many of them pace and paddle. A lot of the Euro dogs pace too.

Good job on evaluating the topline.

 

[Dobs4ever]

The Standard as applied to Dobermans when looking down - I am sure by now you can see why breeders are so important in maintaining the standard - It is to always breed for the best we can. I will say again a breeders does not have the luxury of breeding JUST what they like. We must adhere to the standard.

Go back to the earlier post where I posted a Picture of Dictator. He was one of th e7 sires imported over here to save the Doberman from extinction due to the war. Can you see many of our American dogs when you look at that picture???

I think it also helps us to see how both sides of the world have deviated from that original dog.

 

[Marko1962]

That would be awesome - I just wish the FCI did an illustrated standard as the DPCA did.

Don't get too excited, these drawings don't go into nearly as much detail as the illustrated standard.

 

[Dobs4ever]

A study of the correct HEAD

 

[Dobs4ever]

The HEAD con't from above

 

[Dobs4ever]

Here is my Rayna - a Shrock puppy - She just became Intl CH with 2 BOB's - You are welcome to critique my girl. She has very ncie bone without being cobby or couarse. So you can have both.

 

[Marko1962]

A very nice bitch. Ok I will have a stab but I suspect I will be far from the mark.

Nice and Square, nice feminine head not too heavy, nice muzzle, dry lips, high set ears, nice fore chest, nicely balanced front and rear, nice angles front shoulders at 90', depth of body equal to foot to elbow, nice belly tuck up.

There's only a couple things I think I can see, a hint of a prominent frontal arch, feet could be more cat like?

 

[Caloni]

Okay, so in my class our teacher asked us to do some homework, and I didn't. She asked us to find out only the FAULTS in our breed (mine is a doberman) and present them to the class tomorrow. For AKC what would those be? I looked on the AKC website, but I thought there would be more than the missing teeth and height. This is the best picture I could get. I don't know how to do all that stacking stuff.

 

[Dobs4ever]

Marko very well done. Once you have something like the ilustrated standard to compare to it makes it easier to see on real dogs!!!! Great job!!!.

Prulfrong If you go back and read the pictures or the standard posted each thing that is not correct is a fault if that makes sense. So if the head planes are not level that is a fault, If the dog has a roman nose that is a fault IF they do not have proper dention it is a fault, Straight in the rear is a fault, Straight in front is a fault, Depth of chest is a fault if elbows do not touch. To wide in front is a fault, To narror is a fault. So basicaly any and every thing that deviates from the standard is a fault. It is just how much does it deviate and how many deviations are there.

I once had a breeder friend tell me three strikes and you are out. So the more faults you breed in the worse the dog looks and the more things you then have to breed out.

 

[swiftK9s]

Suzan, I just wanted to thank you and tell you how much the diagrams have helped me to see what you guys have always talked about.
To see the good and bad, side by side has been a huge help! Thank you so much for that.

 

[Dobs4ever]

Glad to hear it helped. That is the point of it all. Most people and even a lot of breeders do not truly study the standard and then in turn understand its importance and how it applies to our breed. The more we help others to understand the standard the better decisions they can make.

Do we all lover our pets absolutely but for breeders it must go beyond that. We can never turn a blind eye to the standard. If you think about it both side of the world have a standard adn they are very close - DPCA just has the most well defined on ever point but the standards or not hat far apart so since both have a standard it must be important to maintain.

 

[Dobs4ever]

Purlfrog why dont' you give us your critique of your dog??? That would help you see if you see what we see.

 

[GennyB]

As you can see in the picture of Trotyl above who is SA dog not a NA dog you will see the extreme high withers and slope of the topline. You can see his pedigree here and it is mostly SA breeding that took the show ring by storm and became the latest big fad. http://www.dobequest.org/profile.php?DOGID=32700


Just to clarify the first "dog" is a bitch - Marienburg's Bond Girl - No wee wee

Thanks for clearing this up. I am trying to learn a few things and thought I was confused. Good to know someone just misspoke.


I have had several people ask me about showing Drake. I never really gave it much thought until we went to the show at Purina Farms and learned a few things as well as has a few people comment how how nice he was. More than one person was surprised he was not entered and encouraged me to do so. According to your illustrations above I do have a nice dog, I think we should give it whirl. We have nothing to loose and we might just have some fun together.

 

[Dobs4ever]

Pictures and commentary from the Doberman Pinscher Illustarted Standard - a study by DPCA con't

I wanted to complete the study today and will start with the neck. Unfortunately we are seeing too many neck problems in our breed - The neck should tie in smoothly with the withers with a minimum of wrinkling - I see a lot of low neck sets where the neck ties in below the withers and this will definitely cause problems when working as the neck takes the brunt when the helper catches the dog.

 

[Dobs4ever]

Neck Faults

 

[Dobs4ever]

The Forequarters