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DCM help - how to advertise my stud has a copy in lineage?

Discussion in 'Doberman Talk and Discussions' started by blackstar, Mar 4, 2019.

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  2. I have..

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  1. blackstar

    blackstar New Member

    Hi!
    So I am familiar with DCM I do health testing on my dogs before breeding. And my stud just came up with clear for 163 diseases, including the most common in Dobermans being “vWD” “DM” “DINGS” He did get diagnosed as “AT RISK” for DCM because they found 1 copy in his linage which I assume was “Gino Gonez del Citone” who was born 1997 and died 2010 being 13 when he died he is a great great grandpa to my stud. Anyway we will be doing yearly holtor monitoring making sure there aren’t any signs before breeding.
    My question is.. how do I tell new puppy owners his health results? Clear? At risk? What? He’s not affected.
    People freak out when they hear DCM and I understand why, my heart dog is positive for DCM.
    No before you start telling me to not breed him or I’m a bad owner/breeder ect please keep your opinion to yourself only a portion of dogs who are DCM1 negative will develop DCM; a portion of DCM1 positive dogs will not develop DCM. There are DCM1 and DCM2 negative Dobermans who develop DCM. His parents get annual echo/holtor and are clear and healthy also. His grandfather died at 11, and his grandmother is still alive and well today at 10 years old. And so on.

     
  2. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    I would never use the word Clear. I've seen this word used with some Euro Breeders.
    If you test for DCM1 (PDK4) and DCM2?
    They either come back Negative or Positive Heterozygous (1 Copy of the Mutated Gene and 1 Copy of a Normal Gene) or Positive Homozygous (2 Copies of the Mutated Gene). And recommendations are not breeding one that is Positive Homozygous.

    Did they come back Positive Heterozygous or Positive Homozygous?
    Which testing did you do? Embark?

    Crap up to 60% of Dobermans are at Risk of DCM and up to 30% at Risk of Sudden Death!
     
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  3. Drogon

    Drogon $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    Is he DCM1 or DCM2 positive?
     
  4. blackstar

    blackstar New Member


    Exactly why I’m asking! But at the same time he isn’t a carrier. He was tested through Embark and came back “heterozygous” with 1 copy of the mutated gene.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. blackstar

    blackstar New Member

    He was diagnosed “at risk” for DCM1. He will be tested for DCM2 next
     
  6. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Then that's what you should advertise.
    I know Embark does not test for DCM2. North Carolina State Vet school does.

    We had two Males that tested Hetero. Both got DCM at 6yrs old. One had very bad Arrhythmias and died at 6yrs 7mo.
    Our other Male is now 9yrs old and still in Occult DCM Stage.
    We didn't test the male that passed for DCM2.
    Our current male we did test for DCM2 and he tested Hetero.

    Yes these tests probably don't mean much. Some will not get DCM or get it and it will not progress.

    Now our Female is Negative for both DCM1 and DCM2. But again not a guarantee. And even breeding her I have reservations.
     
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  7. blackstar

    blackstar New Member

    He will be tested for DCM2 through a different place. When I talk about the two I usually say DCM & DCM2 it’s a habit. Sorry not sure how to change it in the main chat
     
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  8. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    I really would have questions if in the pedigree dogs were dying at 2, 3, 4, 5yrs old.
     
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  9. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber


    Okay I will but everyone on this forum knows what I'm thinking. ;)


    My advice is take a deep breath or 2 and think about what you are doing before you go down this road. Educate yourself and make sure you have a clear understanding of pedigrees and of course DCM. Start with learning the right terminology so you can make yourself clear to any potential buyers. Breeding should ALWAYS be done to improve the breed.
     
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  10. blackstar

    blackstar New Member

    Yeah his parents grandparents all live and lived long healthy lives but it still worries me I don’t want people to think My nonbreeding female is DCM1 positive and she is going on 4 years old.
    t
     
  11. blackstar

    blackstar New Member

    I have studied his pedigree thank you and I’m only asking to make certain. And I am quite aware of terminology just because it’s a habit of mine doesn’t mean I’m not thank you.
    My question isn’t if I need to educate myself or not. So if you don’t have an answer for my question please keep your opinion to yourself.
    Our goal is to improve the breed not breed if it’s not going to that’s the whole point of this post. I swear you can’t fjnd any nice/decent people on these supposed “helpful chats”
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. blackstar

    blackstar New Member


    I have been researching his pedigree, all passed ancestors were 11, 9.5,13.7, 10, 10.2, 11, 12, 10, 7, 12, 13, 9
    There was one who died early at almost 6 years old.
    All who are still alive and healthy are: 10, 9, 7, 13, 12
     
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  13. Antman408

    Antman408 $ Premium Subscriber $ $ Forum Donor $

    Your dog tested positive for DCM? If so don’t breed your *edit* dog. You’re not improving the breed by breeding dogs positive for the gene.
     
  14. blackstar

    blackstar New Member

    For the last freaking time he doesnt have DCM!!!!!!! OMFG read the post, this is why I hate talking to people on these things you NEVER help with questions and you just shame people..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2019
  15. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    Come on now, folks. I don't have any say around here; but we try to keep it as friendly as possible. I for one am not too happy that the language seems to be creeping toward the toilet as well. Feel free to put me in my place, Rits.
     
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  16. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    The language is unnecessary to get your point across, let alone have a conversation. Thats what we are here for...to have a conversation.

    If I recall correctly, many people breed dogs that have one copy of the DCM gene. The genepool is simply too small not to and we don't know enough about DCM. Dogs have been bred that have 1 copy of the gene and live long healthy lives and don't die of DCM. I'm sure @Archer could share her knowledge on this more than I.
     
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  17. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Genny is a respected moderator here...and even if she wasn't a moderator, her opinion is allowed. She wasn't disrespectful in any way, quite the opposite actually. Not everyone here will have the answer you are looking for, but maybe together, we'll help you come to a conclusion and/or someone will come along with the answer you are looking for.
     
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  18. blackstar

    blackstar New Member

    I have been researching his pedigree for sometime. And so far there is only 1 that died early at 5.9years. The rest lived long healthy lives one being almost 14 years old, and with their lifespan being 10-13, I’d say that is pretty darn good.
    Also @Rits I appreciate it, it just felt like she was trying to say I don’t know what I’m talking about which these days it seems like that’s all anyone ever tells anyone on these kind of forms instead of helping out. What is the point of tbese if we aren’t going to help each other out..
     
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  19. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber


    I was just pointing out you need to have an understanding of what you are talking about in order to explain to others. I don't think I insinuated in anyway that you don't know what you are talking about. You asked for help on how to do just that...correct?
    Now as far as the forum goes, I think overall the members here are very helpful so bashing it on your first thread won't be very helpful for you. As a whole this forum is for dobe lovers and primarily pet owners. You won't find many breeders here but you will find people very passionate about the breed. You are welcome here but as far as help with breeding, looking for a mentor to help you in your journey would be an excellent idea.
    If you take a look around the forum you will find lots of great threads (very enlightening and educational) on DCM, read them as they will help you gain more knowledge. No one is an expert because we just don't know enough about this horrible disease.
    Remember knowledge is power.
     
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  20. Drogon

    Drogon $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    • Agree Agree x 1

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