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Canine von Willebrand's Disease

Discussion in 'Doberman Nutritional Care' started by deladobies, Feb 21, 2009.

  1. Silent

    Silent Novitiate

    You are right in that color is not everything. Being z does not mean a dog will not have any or all the breed problems too. There are both z and non z dogs that are vwd affected. The majority of dobes by vetgen breed stats are carrier. They do not divide them by color or z factor that I have ever heard.

  2. FredC

    FredC Guest

    Clear, Carriers, affected. Only the affected dogs are the bleeders. But carriers can produce bleeders.
  3. FredC

    FredC Guest

    Please tone it down a bit or take it private. These arguments are totally unproductive. BTW we do have an Ignore feature you two are more then welcome to take for a test spin, ;)
  4. DobieLvr

    DobieLvr Novitiate

    Von..where is that ignore feature??? lol
  5. DobieLvr

    DobieLvr Novitiate

    FOUND it!!
  6. MLR

    MLR Novitiate

    Silent is right. The majority of dobermans out there are pets. Don't pet doberman owners have a right to expect quality companionship? I think so. Whether a carrier will bleed isn't significant. It's whether or not this trait exists at all. Everyone isn't as knowledgable about Vwd as the so-called professional breeders are but, these are the people we learn from. Shouldn't they be concerned about what they are passing on to the unsuspecting general public? And shouldn't they be held accountable for the eventual deminse of the breed with their continued practice of breeding carriers which in turn leads to potentially affected dobermans. It is mind boggling to me that the DPCA doesn't wake up and smell the coffee here.
  7. DobieLvr

    DobieLvr Novitiate

    Works PERFECT!!
  8. DobieLvr

    DobieLvr Novitiate

    I agree 100% Mary Lou! That is the point I was trying to make...
  9. Dobiegirl

    Dobiegirl Novitiate

    I can't help myself....I swore I would not reply anymore on this topic:eek:

    All I'm gonna say is have you had one that bleed, did you have to worry every single day wut if they get cut, what if they need emergency surgery, what if they bloat, what if, what if......:confused:

    My Cody lived to age 14 because I knew all there was to know about her condition...did I care about all this scientific mumboo jumbooo H*LL NO and for the average pet owner we don't care, we just want our furkid to be healthy and not watch them bleed uncontrolably......
    I don't want to argue or debate any of you on wut Cody's lab tests were.....my vet did all the right tests... she bleed out on more than one occassion.......

    JMO but after wut we went thru with Cody I too would take a white dobie over another VWD..... one another thing I don't believe any dog can be guaranted to be 100% healthy.....

    And you think this is so important that you have tested your dogs? They sure aren't on any list that I have read. Carriers do not bleed from Vwd and if you think they do......I have some beach front property in Arizona for ya. LOL>

    • Like Like x 1
  10. DobieLvr

    DobieLvr Novitiate

    What is so sad, is the attention being paid to vwd or the z factor white dogs... a dear friend of mine has my Fila's full litter brother, she rescued two Fila puppies (the breeder dumped 2 litters of puppies in NC) she has had horrible problems with both dogs and her "free" dogs have cost her around $10,000 to date. Cody has no hips - on a scale of 1 - 10, 1 being the worse, he is a minus 3... She has done stem cell to help his hips - meds, etc - there is nothing worse than seeing a dog struggle to stand or jump...
    What about the Doberman's that as Silent brought up - die at the age of 5 or 6 from bad hearts? Now, that would just be devasting to me - to lose a dog at that age. Cancer is the number 1 killer of dogs - Bloat is number 2 and they are now connecting bloat to genetics! Isn't that a surprise...
    With everything there is to discuss and try to fix... why does this conversation keep coming up?
  11. Panama

    Panama Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    The stats VetGen uses are based on dogs that have been tested only, not the Dobe population as a whole. The # of untested dogs is far greater then the # of tested dogs. Many clears are not tested as they are Clear by Parentage. My Hawk is Clear by Parentage but he has been swabbed anyway.

    And yes, I feel someone looking for or purchaseing a Dobe should be made aware of the dog's vWD Status, whether it be 'By Parentage' or testing. Had we known over 17 yrs ago about it, no we probably never would've gotten our Zeus. Would I give back the 14 yrs he so lovingly game me...NO WAY!
    • Like Like x 1
  12. MLR

    MLR Novitiate

    I agree about not regreting purchasing either of my two. I love them and they love me.

    What upsets me is that professional breeders don't tell unsuspecting buyers of the health potential of their pups. And even if they do they don't explain the consequenses; they'd never sell a litter if they did.
  13. Miller Dobes

    Miller Dobes Novitiate

    Yes, ethical breeders make all the owners aware of Vwd and other health issues before they place a puppy. You have to test the parents and should always disclose that testing to those that take your puppy.

    I personally do own an affected red bitch. She is a great mover, level topline, huge chest, and absolutely is the easiest dog I've ever trained. I got her when her breeder was concerned her owner had lost her job up north. She's here but has never been bred by me. She was bred by the prior owner and had 12 puppies without problems. She doesn't bleed any more than any other dog when you do her nails. She has had her ears cropped and she has had stitches from a sever cut on a fence. The vet did a clotting test on her when I first got her and she is not at risk. She is classic Vwd affected and shows no signs of bleeding to death from all of the procedures that were done. If this beautiful girl is bred to a clear, none of the puppies will be affected and none will bleed and all would be carriers. If you take one of those puppies and bred to a clear, you will have 50% carriers and 50% clear. This is what VenGen considers a safe breeding and how you improve and hopefully eliminate a fault in 2 generations. You then have more clear dogs that hopefully conform to the standard. It is a shame we can't do that in all faults.

    Let me be clear, we do not breed any of our dogs often. We are not commerical, nor do we sell full registration on our dogs very often, we don't ship, and when you spend what we do on your babies, you make nothing. Breaking even isn't even a goal. It is our passion and we intend to keep what we have because they don't drop dead early. Amara's champion mother is still alive who is affected and healthy. She does not bleed and her blood does clot. She was spayed after Amara, has had surgery and is not a clinical bleeder. She is Vwd affected. Her champion father is still alive. Her grandfather died at almost 15 and is on the dpca longivity list.......and hey! Longivity matters no matter what tests you do. So I agree with your guys, there is much more to a doberman's health than Vwd.

  14. Panama

    Panama Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    I do agree. Unethical Breeders either aren't testing, so they have no idea what a litter's status might be, or are testing, knowing full well what they are chancing and throwing caution to the wind with no regard to the outcome.

    If I had a litter of pups, and someone inquired, if their first questions didn't pertain to health (testing) & temperament, they wouldn't get a pup. As so many inquire about dogs on line these day (initial contact), if they were to email me and ask for more info, and then replied asking what DCM or vWD were, they wouldn't get a pup. That might sound a little harsh to some, but to me, they obviously haven't done their homework on the breed.

    I don't know why you use "Professional Breeders" as a reference. Any breeder I've ever inquired with has offered the info up front, I requested proof, they gladly provided it. A reputable/ethical breeder will provide all the breed info and thoroughly explain any potential health risks.
  15. MLR

    MLR Novitiate

    Sorry. I meant no personal offense. It's just that when you sell pedigreed puppies from titled blood lines for money, as opposed to giving them away, it takes you out of the catagory of amateur breeding.
  16. Panama

    Panama Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    No offense taken at all. I do think even the amateur breeder (just getting started) should be testing. Start off on the right foot with good dogs.
  17. Miller Dobes

    Miller Dobes Novitiate

    You test all your dogs and then, you know and can tell your vet so that they have the clotting meds available. Of course, you tell every owner of all the results in Vwd and other areas.

    Commerical breeding to me means a business for money. Few of the people that test, even break even. It is those that choose to make money off the backs of their dogs that are called commericial. In addition, they breed lots and lots of dogs. That's my take on it. But then, I've bred very very few litters in the past 20 years and don't know many greeders. Most of my dogs were rescues back in the day.

  18. hrd2gt

    hrd2gt Well-Known Member

    My good friend who currently has 3 dobies has one show dog, from a actual dpca breeder... he had bloat at 2, and his stomach twisted.. they found out the hard way that he also was a bleeder of vWD.. amazingly he pulled thru it and is still a big happy dummy, but MAN was it close!! I felt so bad for my friend because she was just worried to death!!

    With all the changes that the AKC is trying to encourage... what exactly would be bad about breeding healthy dogs?? (other than the fact of small gene pools) Why would we even breed dogs that have this and ever have to worry about it?? I think it would be great if we can breed it out.
  19. Panama

    Panama Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    I agree. It is not an overnight fix. Reducing the # of Affected pups being produced, then breeding away from it, then possibly eliminating it is not out of reach and will only reduce the gene pool not strangle it. This can only happen if everyone tests and breeds away from it.

    (Owned by 3 vWD Clears)
  20. MLR

    MLR Novitiate

    I second that motion hrdtgt. Healthy dobermans should be the goal, not a haphazard occurance.

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