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Can we talk about food ?

Discussion in 'Doberman Nutritional Care' started by C908, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. C908

    C908 Jr Member

    I have been following my breeders advice and continued to use Fromm Adult Gold. This is the only thing she uses with all of her dogs. She gave me a reason for not using puppy food but I can't remember what she said. Since we have been dealing with some skin issues the discussion of food came up with our new vet. Yesterday I called Fromm to ask some questions. They recommend Fromm Heartland Gold Large Puppy Breed until the age of 18 months, Preacher is getting ready to turn 9 months. This food is grain free and has no chicken where as what he eats now has grain and chicken is the first ingredient. Just curious what some of you use, especially those of you using Fromm. Thanks !

     
  2. Oh Little Oji

    Oh Little Oji Formerly Tad Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    I recently switched back to Taste of the Wild – the kind that has bison meat and I think venison – called "High Prairie." I had switched away from it to Nutri Source, but Oji lost weight on that. (Oji has some sort of digestive problem where he seems to not digest enough nutrition from what he eats, and he has loose stool/excessive stool problems)

    For several months I had him on Fromm Gold. His stool problems have been pretty much the same on any kind of kibble I have used with him. The Fromm Gold seemed like a fine food.

    Speaking of Fromm, his breeder did fairly recently tell me that a food they had success with in getting similar problems under control was Fromm Beef Fritata. (I think that's the basic spelling and name). The thing is with that though, is that it is quite expensive compared even to the already high dog food prices of today.

    So, Taste of the Wild High Prairie has been the food that has managed to keep Oji the least skinny.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    I'm not totally up to date anymore with kibble stuff as Kaiser is raw fed, but your breeder is right regarding puppy food. Large dogs should be fed an all life stages food or adult food. Puppy food tends to have too much protein causing fast growth. But at 9 months I bet Preacher is nearly full size. K was pretty much full height by 10 months.

    Now for the news. Grain free has been linked to diet related DCM. Search Taurine to find the thread. Since you may be dealing with an allergy, you could pick a non chicken protein that is not grain free. Many dog allergies are related to chicken in particular. Can you try a beef formula or any red meat?

    Failing that, you might not have much choice but to proceed with the grain free but I personally would exhaust other options first. Like Oji, K never had solid stool on any kibble we tried, so we know how annoying food changes can be.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. C908

    C908 Jr Member

    Thank you for your response, I strongly considered switching to TOTW until I read where they just had a class action suit filed against them Aug 31st, 2018. We have been feeding our cats TOTW for years and they love it. Our breeder doesn't care for TOTW because it is a Diamond product and they are known for having many recalls. What I find amazing about Fromm is they have never had a recall on their dry food in over 100 years. It's a family owned business located in Wisconsin, they are very friendly and helpful on the phone. I will look at everything they have to offer and try another flavor.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. C908

    C908 Jr Member

    Thank you for your response, what you said reinforces what I have read and heard. Our new vets tech didn't get into detail but said grain free is not as great as what it was first thought to be. I'm leaning towards seeing if Fromm has something with grain and something other than chicken.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    Phew... I go through phases where I'm cross referencing three websites to try and make an educated decision on what food to feed...

    We currently feed an adult sardine and anchovy, non-grain free food that does not have ANY peas, lentils, or potatoes in it.

    Even from just the names of the all life stages FROMM recipes (Duck and Sweet Potato, Lamb and Lentil, Pork and Peas) and from spot checking a few other recipes, FROMM relies heavily on these non-grain veggies that MIGHT contribute to heart conditions.
    Even their adults foods though seem to either be chicken heavy or have legumes and potatoes in the top 5 ingredients. ARG!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Firestar Dobe

    Firestar Dobe $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    One of the reasons puppy food is not used is due to the amount of protein in it. With larger breeds, if growth is too fast in the bones it can cause "Knuckling" and other joint problems. The dogs foot bends under and they cannot walk properly. It is very painful as well. An all life stages food should have less protein than puppy food. Everyone has to figure out what they feel is best for their dogs. After speaking with my vet a couple of weeks ago, and doing plenty of research when I got home, I followed his recommendation and switched the girls from a grain free food to a food with grain (Fromm). It is difficult to find a really good food with grain because several years ago dog food companies all jumped on the grain free bandwagon! We will see how it goes, everything changes as more is learned about nutrition and health issues!
     
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  8. Brioddy

    Brioddy Notable member

    I feed a locally made kibble, chicken is number one ingredient it contains no gluten no soy no wheat. All three of the dogs eat it, and I top it with random goodies including but not limited to sweet potato, pumpkin, deer meat, ground beef, chicken, mackerel, duck eggs, green beans, etc. all are a good weight, and happy for their meals. I was feeding TOTW before at more than double the cost and Brinks had a consistent green goop draining from his eyes.
     
  9. My2Girls

    My2Girls Notable member

    Just curious what Brand are you feeding? I’m thinking of switching but just don’t know what brand to go with. Seems like most of the kibble that is grain free has all the lentils/pees to replace the grain. I’m currently feeding Earthborn Holistic very similar to Fromm in that they are a smaller company, never had a recall and process in their own facilities. I’ve tried Fromm and Zignatures.
     
  10. LifeofRubie

    LifeofRubie Notable member

    Holistic Select Adult Anchovy & Sardine. After trying a TON of food, this is what both dogs do well on that is not absurdly expensive that hasn't had recalls, etc. They also get a giant glob of plain, greek-style yogurt daily and Moo gets bone broth once a day that has some diatemacious earth mixed in.
     
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  11. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Right now I would stay away from Grain Free foods. Because of the issue with DCM in dogs that are not prone to DCM, ending up with DCM.
    Unless your dog has an issue with Non-Grain Free ones?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  12. My2Girls

    My2Girls Notable member

    And that’s why I’m trying to switch but most of the 4 star rated kibble that I’ve seen is grain free. It’s so frustrating.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Ddski5

    Ddski5 Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    When the DCM-grain free stuff came out, we switched from TOTW Wetlands to 4Health Performance.

    It is not grain free and a 4star rated kibble.

    First 10 Ingredients:
    Chicken, Chicken Meal, Ground White Rice, Cracked Pearled Barley, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Egg Product, Dried Beet Pulp, Flaxseed, Natural Chicken Flavor, Fish Meal, Potassium Chloride,

    Before on TOTW, Ragnar had big piles of poo, on 4Health performance he poo is 1/2 the size smaller. Thus telling me there is less filler in 4Health.

    I buy it from the local Tractor Supply store $38 for a 35lb bag. I believe it can be ordered online.

    Ragnar loves it but then again, that monster will eat anything.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Kaiser2016

    Kaiser2016 Active Member

    Nice. Smaller poops also mean the food is being used by the body. Can't complain about that!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    This is what our boys cardiologist wrote about DCM and Grain Free Diets.
    She is one of the Vets suppling data to UC Davis and the FDA.
    9A2A23D1-314D-491C-955B-6C7F30C8A8F3.jpeg.jpg


    B10C6D6D-F3D0-4BB5-BF3F-ABC7E423E3D8.jpeg.jpg
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
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  16. C908

    C908 Jr Member

    Thank you for posting that article. It describes exactly what my senior male has, in his case grain free was not the cause more likely due to old age. My senior was diagnosed with his heart problem at age 12.
     
    • Empathetic Empathetic x 2
  17. Rits

    Rits Admin Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    Just remember, they are labeling it as a "grain free issue" because grain free foods USUALLY have the suspect ingredients, HOWEVER, grain inclusive foods can also have these suspect ingredients! I'm sure the media is just wrapping it up as solely a grain free issue possibly because it gets people's attention, maybe a little bit of trying to get people back to the big corp foods, but its not solely a grain free issue.

    Peas, lentils and potatoes - avoid any form of these to be safe for now.

    Edit:
    We made the switch from Orijen to Nature's Logic. Haven't noticed any change. Their poops were pretty good and coats shiny, still the same. I just knew I wanted to avoid wheat, corn, and soy, and the above suspect ingredients, but also have a variety of proteins to choose from to be able to feed a rotation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 3
  18. Ddski5

    Ddski5 Hot Topics Subscriber $ Forum Donor $

    @strykerdobe

    In regards to the letter you posted:

    That is not some government agency speaking out just because they have to address issues of concern, those are Vets on the front lines that have identified an emergent issue at hand.

    Thanks for posting.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  19. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    Yes Dr. Hitchcock has been our boys Cardiologist for about 3yrs now.
    She actually saw this problem coming into practice. She started to contact the FDA, North Carolina State, UC Davis and other Vets.
     
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  20. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    My opinion:
    Yes feeding a Grain Free food to a breed that is pre-disposed to DCM. It would be a BIG NO NO for me.

    I really don't think they are putting in enough Named Animal Meats and Organs into these foods. Most foods are just cereal and high in Carbs! Most of the Protein is coming from plants and grains! You just don't feed this type of food to Carnivores.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
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    • Agree Agree x 1

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