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Breeders in Europe

Discussion in 'Doberman Breeders' started by crodobe, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. crodobe

    crodobe Novitiate

    Hello to all,

    I'm planning on getting a female Doberman pup for years now. It's a huge thing for me, so I've been doing a ton of research and I'm taking things slow. This forum along with one more has probably been the most informative and helpful online reading material about the breed. Now I'm looking for a breeder and would appreciate some guidance on picking one.

    I grew up with GSDs and developed strong affection for dogs in general, but I fel in love with the Dobermann since the first time I saw one. Getting my first dobe puppy is a dream come true and I hope you can point me in the right direction.

    I want a dog from euro show lines, as she will be primarily a family pet. I'm also very interested in confirmation if the breeder is willing to give up top tier puppy for me to show. I don't need an extremely high drive working dog, but even though I don't want to train her for IPO I still want her to be energetic and confident. I'm quite active and in search of a companion.

    I've met a reputable breeder/vet here in Croatia, learned things from him, but felt kind of nervous asking for suggestion because I want a cropped and docked puppy and he is against that plus it's banned here. He also just had a litter so asking about other breeders simply seemed rude.

    Some kennels which are very well known worldwide are a couple of hours drive away from me and their dogs are up there among most beautiful ones I've ever seen. What troubles me is that I've found a lot of mixed reviews on those kennels regarding how their dogs' pedigrees show short life expectancy due to DCM. Can I get an honest update on that since some of those people seem like they are taking health tests very seriously and dedicating their lives to improve the breed.


    I would like to get some input on quality breeders in Europe. If you have any questions for me feel free to ask.
     
  2. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    :welcome:

    What breeders are you looking at?
    There are a few websites where you can look at pedigrees. It's been awhile since I have been in the market for a pup so I can only think of one ATM Dobermanns` base
     
  3. JanS

    JanS DCF Owner Administrative Staff Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber

    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. ArdynBane

    ArdynBane Jr Member

    I just imported a European male from Erebus Dobermanns - DO NOT GO TO HER!
    She has falsified litters, fakes titles for her dogs, lies about health testing, and sends sickly pups to new owners. She will lie and say otherwise, but she sent me a fake puppy from Serbia when she is from Greece and claims to be from the said parents... I found the true breeder for my dog. Someone also did DNA testing and she falsified DNA testing, but she found the real parents for her dog too. Several of us found out her dogs have health issues (Primarily Malocclusion).

    Please please follow the FaceBook page called Karma Erebus about her shady breeding practices (FaceBook or IG). She is in denial about everything, but hard evidence with DNA testing and clubs confirming they have never seen her dogs or even obtain champion titles, etc is hard to ignore. She is advertising her current litter with export pedigree, but we know she won't get them as she is under investigation (Hope to be banned any day now) and hasn't given her litters papers for over a year.

    This is even for current Doberman owners: Take a look at how horrible this "breeder" is at Karma Erebus. Hard evidence is there and it's CRAZY how long she's been doing this for and getting away with it.
     
    • Wow x 2
    • Empathetic Empathetic x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. crodobe

    crodobe Novitiate

    I am primarily checking out Del Nasi and Altobello. There are more breeders with beautiful dogs and big accomplishments like Pride of Russia for example, but those are kind of far away compared to ones mentioned above (I can visit breeders in nearby countries to meet them and their dogs and also come back to pick up the puppy myself).
     
  6. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber


    I have heard both good and bad on the breeders you mentioned. All I can say RESEARCH! Remember beauty is on the outside and what matters is on the inside. Health and temperament should be the priority. Study the pedigrees of both parents and look for longevity. No cause of death on the pedigree? Ask why. Trust me, there is a reason it is left blank.
    Don't hesitate to ask for proof of any answers to questions you have for the breeder. Picking a pup is a huge decision and investment.
    You want to do everything possible to put the odds in your favor.

    I have a 2 year old Lipar Land girl. I couldn't be happier with her. She's beautiful, smart, outstanding temperament and so far very healthy. Vera, her breeder couldn't have been better to work with. She answered all my questions and didn't hesitate to show me proof. We still talk at least once a month.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. Drogon

    Drogon $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    Altobello has some of the most beautiful Dobes in the world - IMHO but they come with baggage. DCM is known to be a problem in both Altobello lines and Del Nasi lines.
    Some of the EU breeders that I like:
    Pride of Russia, St Kreal, Diamante Nero, Lipar Land, Casa Coppo, Ascomannis
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber



    Remember NO matter what. The number 1 thing on the list should be Health. I don't care if its just for a pet or working. Yes people get hug up on looks! I do to sometimes. But I go right back to Health should be #1. Get someone that can look at the past pedigree of the parents. Then are the Grandparents still living. Remember that DCM is every line! I hate when they list DCM Clear. It might be for this particular Holter and Echo.
    Also paperwork can be forged!

    This was written by Silvia Champion lots of great info on Finding a Breeder.
    Finding a Breeder

    Silvia Champion
    October 4 at 2:34 PM
    I keep getting asked about new litters and mattings and I try to answer to all request but just don't always have the time for lengthy chats or to keep going on about the same so I'd like to give a few general but simple answers for any buyer considering to spend a small fortune on a euro puppy today, especially from these "TOP LITTERS", as the fancy sales ads read:

    1) WALK AWAY FROM ANY MATING WHERE EITHER PARENT IS UNDER 3 or NOT (CURRENTLY) ECHO & HOLTER TESTED (COMBINED!!!) .... Because u just cannot know enough about the dogs health or there may not have been 2 consecutive heart tests performed to record any changes in heart function. And a breeder may be breeding young to avoid occult DCM stage being diagnosed, to make more money from such matings by having more litters if entered into breeding under 3yrs.

    As much as many will argue that the best age to breed is from 2yrs old.... The problem I see with that is that even the highest risk pedigree will most likely still heart test within ôk/normal range, or you'd have no previous test to compare it to, or if not tested, you could even be buying from such dog already having DCM, which we do see happens (DCM confirmed before 2 yrs of age), which is where the common excuse "heart testing is pointless as DCM usually strikes later in life, past breeding age, so why spend money on testing at 2-3yrs old dogs" comes from.

    2) ASK TO SEE ECHO & HOLTER OF BOTH PARENTS (different owners most times, but do!) .... NO MORE THAN 6 MONTHS OLD FOR A STUD, AND NO MORE THAN 3 MONTHS OLD FOR THE FEMALE.... as we know that DCM/Sudden Death can progress and kill within 6 months, and there's no excuse why a breeding female should not have her heart tested prior to her planed mating (2-3 in her lifetime, means 2-3 heart tests!)

    3) IF A FEMALE HAS NO HEART TEST, ONLY A MALE, at any age, WALK AWAY..... simply irresponsible, ignorant, and should shout out loud at you the breeder who's about to sell these planned puppies doesnt care about the health of his/her dog or the puppies born without testing, or doesnt care to possibly be breeding a dog who may already have occult DCM ("my female is healthy, never been sick, why test her, DCM happens in later age" bullshit is just that, a bullshit lame excuse)

    4) IF THE STUD OWNER CLAIMS TO HAVE HEART TESTS BUT REFUSES TO SHOW THE FULL REPORT WITH READINGS AND VALUES, WALK Away...... May mean there are changes in heart function, evidence of declined values, or has even been diagnosed as DCM hence won't show them. Or they're lying.... There are NO echo & Holter tests.

    5) CHECK PROGENY OF EVERY DOG IN THE 4 GENERATION PEDIGREE FOR YOUNG DEATHS AND DCM IN DATABASES AND ASK Around, people will talk private, you'd be surprised how much u would learn how quickly if u care to ask... Progeny speaks louder than tests or breeders words (a normal testing parents can and have produced young DCM progeny, this is a fact proven by many examples) & AVOID PEDIGREE WITH DOGS HAVING DIED YOUNG, NO CODS RECORDED, OR PRODUCED DCM IN VARIOUS MATINGS.... meaning: study and know about dogs ur wanting to buy a pedigree of, speak to their owners even if dogs are dead, breeders or owners, as much as possible.... If u get fishy answers about death, you will learn to sniff it out,. If u get told dog died of cancer, there's gotta be a receipt, vet report, something. In western world at least. Breeders demand proof of DCM from owners, you as a buyer demand proof of Cod or illness or DCM-free at the time of death/last heart test from breeders. Why would t they happily show you, unLess they're hiding the truth about DCM..

    6) ANY INBREEDING WITHIN 4 GENERATIONS, as further back all dobermann have been inbred and same dogs are present, especially in show lines, WALK Away.... DOBERMANN is way too inbred, however, there still are very different pedigrees and lines present but unknown to general public and putting together pedigrees with same dogs is purely and mainly to create a guaranteed LOOK.... Not heath... So whoever cares about the look, as priority, stay away. No one in their right mind today would inbreed on dogs claiming its to improve health ☝️

    7) DNA testing Should be done by all breeders to aid the research, not fool you to buy a DCM-Free puppy, know such thing doenst exist, it's a false statement, no one can ever make this statement as all DCM genes have not been identified, he ce the disease cannot be genetically tested for as a whole, yes or no, affected or not.

    Anyone who cares about not aiding in spreading DCM, not supporting irresponsible breeding based on breeding without testing (echo and Holter test will not reduce the prevalence of DCM nor eliminate it but IT WILL help a breeder know whether the dog has DCM at the time of breeding, and that is 1 step to eliminate occult, already affected, DCM dogs from further breeding), will have ANY PROBLEM following these steps... In order to breed health-consciously, find those very few who are truly trying, are utmost honest, and who don't care about the looks, don't breed for income and are prepared to be totally open and honest about all of their dogs heath, CODs, and who keep records and keep In touch with their puppy buyers for that very reason.... To know the heath of progeny they produce...

    DON'T BE NAIVE, DON'T ACCEPT EXCUSES, OR with YOUR IGNORANCE AND Lack OF EDUCATION AND PREPARENESS, be ADDING TO THE DCM PROBLEM BY BUYING FROM THE WRONG BREEDERS...AND LEARN TO UNDERSTAND HEART TESTING, ALL ABOUT DCM, so the breeder knows they cannot bullshit u....
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
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  9. Cscallan

    Cscallan Notable member

    Throwing Scarva strand out there, no personal experience but I remember it being suggested before in another thread
     
  10. Snoop

    Snoop Novitiate

    I’m also looking to get a euro pup and I’ve recently started considering the possibility of importing one from Europe. I’ve started to reserach Liparland and although most of the people on this forum have good things to say about the breeder, I’ve found some negative things as well. There where stories about falsified documents, sicks dogs, along with other things. Would you be able to share a little more about your experience working with the breeder, importing a dog from overseas and some of the costs associated with that?
     
  11. strykerdobe

    strykerdobe Hot Topics Subscriber

    I will ask our friend in Romania about them.
     
  12. GennyB

    GennyB Moderator Hot Topics Subscriber


    Well all I can say is my experience has been nothing but GREAT! My girl is 2 1/2 now and is simply amazing. She is almost ready to be officially called my service dog.
    As far as sick dogs, that is a risk you take. Can't say I would call the doberman a healthy breed. That said, there are healthy dogs. Research not only of the breeder but also the pedigree of the parents is crucial.
    Now to address the cost, My girl was less expensive than some I could buy right here in the states, and that included shipping her here. Getting her here couldn't have been easier, Vera (the breeder) contacted me with the details and I just picked her up at the airport. It will be really simple if you live within driving distance of a international airport. For us that was O'Hare. I live in the St. Louis metro area and could have picked her up there but opted to drive to Chicago. It happened to be Christmas time and very busy for the airports. For some reason because of that she would have had a long layover even though there are flights from Chicago the St. Louis every hour. Didn't really understand the reasoning but the drive to Chicago is an easy one so no big deal for us.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Drogon

    Drogon $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    Vera from LiparLand is great. One could not ask for a better breeder. Importing was easy and included in the price. I just picked my boy up from the airport and drove home with him. Vera took care of everything. When my boy passed away just after 3 years old, Vera offered me another puppy free of cost.
     
  14. Snoop

    Snoop Novitiate

    Thanks for getting back to me and I’m very sorry for your loss. I know when I had to put my last dog down, it was probably the hardest thing I had to do in my life. I know with Dobes their health record and genetic testing can be hit or miss. Did you feel comfortable with the dogs health record when getting your dog and do you feel like the dogs history of health was up to par? I guess I’m also asking if you’d feel comfortable getting another dog from them? Also, how was the dogs temparment? Although both my girlfriend and I live very active lifestyles, we’re looking for a Doberman who will be a good family dog and will not mind relaxing a few times a week.
     
  15. Drogon

    Drogon $ Premium Subscriber $ Hot Topics Subscriber

    I would have gotten another Dobe from her but I realized I wanted one from a working line. His temperament was outstanding. With enough exercise he would relax.
     
  16. Kay Shaw

    Kay Shaw Hot Topics Subscriber


    I know this is late but who did you end up going with.
     
  17. Firsttimepup

    Firsttimepup Novitiate

    Hello was wondering who the breeder is in Croatia? We are looking for undocked dobbies and would love to know how to get ahold of him. Thank!!
     

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