1 year old male still biting/jumping/pulling

Sage024 · May 26, 2022

Hello, my boy is almost 13 months now. He’s a pretty good boy and I don’t know if this is another new phase but he is STILL so bitey/jumpy and in my face. It doesn’t seem like anything gets him to chill out long term with these annoying behaviors. It’s almost like he gets frenzied and just has to mouth all over and “no” and obedience doesn’t mean anything. Walking away from him he’ll just come after and nip my butt. He’s definitely worse with this stuff when my boyfriend is visiting us but even alone with me he still does this. I feel like at a year old he should be over these behaviors by now since we never *knowingly* or *intentionally* reward these behaviors. Just tired of constantly having little knicks on my arms and hands from him getting all crazy. Any tips? Is this somewhat normal? Or am I not training him enough so he’s behind for a one year old?

Ddski5 · May 27, 2022

Ehhhh….
At 13months, he should be settling down some. I say that but I really didn’t see it in my male until 15-20months.

Yours has impulse issues, no impulse control. He sees you, immediately wants to mouth and bite and does not think before he acts. He needs to look to you for direction and permission to act on what he wants to do…not automatically react on what he wants to do.

Hit the magnifying glass in upper right and type in “impulse control”- read and research.

I had the same issues with my male and I implemented the prong collar for pulling, being jumpy and knowingly not listening. I also used the ECollar for when I was not within reach of jerking the prong collar. Yes, it sounds kind of mean and hard but the goal here is to make sure he knows these actions are NOT acceptable. It is my rules not his. After 20-30x, he got the idea and started watching me for direction rather that doing whatever he wanted to.

With these tools though, I had to watch and be split second ready to use, to get on him and make sure he knew what he is doing wrong. You really need to train, train, train with him everyday.

He may be just seeking more attention to you- when boyfriend comes over. But still, he needs to follow your lead.

Ravenbird · May 27, 2022

^^^^^^ Everything @Ddski5 said. Everything. ^^^^^^

Sage024 said:
since we never *knowingly* or *intentionally* reward these behaviors.

If you aren't inserting some negatives, he will never learn what not to do. Staying neutral or turning your back on this kind of play will never discourage it, especially in a young Doberman. A well-timed correction - consistently, not occasionally - is what's needed here. Keep a collar & short leash on him at all times so you can grab it when he makes his move. I'll assume he knows sit or down so when he jumps on you or nips at you, pop the leash once and command sit or down. Every time. If he doesn't respond to a flat collar, move to a prong collar or learn how to use an e-collar.

You can teach a dog to DO anything with clicks/treats/rewards, but you cannot teach them to NOT do something without a negative marker in the mix. Hope this makes sense.

Sage024 · May 27, 2022

Ddski5 said:
Ehhhh….
At 13months, he should be settling down some. I say that but I really didn’t see it in my male until 15-20months.

Yours has impulse issues, no impulse control. He sees you, immediately wants to mouth and bite and does not think before he acts. He needs to look to you for direction and permission to act on what he wants to do…not automatically react on what he wants to do.

Hit the magnifying glass in upper right and type in “impulse control”- read and research.

I had the same issues with my male and I implemented the prong collar for pulling, being jumpy and knowingly not listening. I also used the ECollar for when I was not within reach of jerking the prong collar. Yes, it sounds kind of mean and hard but the goal here is to make sure he knows these actions are NOT acceptable. It is my rules not his. After 20-30x, he got the idea and started watching me for direction rather that doing whatever he wanted to.

With these tools though, I had to watch and be split second ready to use, to get on him and make sure he knew what he is doing wrong. You really need to train, train, train with him everyday.

He may be just seeking more attention to you- when boyfriend comes over. But still, he needs to follow your lead.

Thank you for the detailed reply! I’ve gotten so much mixed info about what’s okay to use and not from trainers. I’ve been lead to believe that ecollars and prong collars are bad but choke collars are okay etc. he definitely needs impulse control, we will be working on it

Sage024 · May 27, 2022

Ravenbird said:
^^^^^^ Everything @Ddski5 said. Everything. ^^^^^^

If you aren't inserting some negatives, he will never learn what not to do. Staying neutral or turning your back on this kind of play will never discourage it, especially in a young Doberman. A well-timed correction - consistently, not occasionally - is what's needed here. Keep a collar & short leash on him at all times so you can grab it when he makes his move. I'll assume he knows sit or down so when he jumps on you or nips at you, pop the leash once and command sit or down. Every time. If he doesn't respond to a flat collar, move to a prong collar or learn how to use an e-collar.

You can teach a dog to DO anything with clicks/treats/rewards, but you cannot teach them to NOT do something without a negative marker in the mix. Hope this makes sense.

Thank you for the advice, is it known that ecollars and prong collars are fine for this breed? I’ve had both trainers refuse to use prong/ecollar, saying it can make the dog crazy. But on YT other trainers say it’s fine. My current trainer is okay with leash corrections on a modified choke collar. I’m sure there are many ways to do this

Firestar Dobe · May 27, 2022

A properly fitted prong collar and the correct usage will not harm your dog! A choke collar can actually bruise their trachea. You could try a limited slip collar which works like a prong but without actual prongs. An ecollar will not harm your dog if used properly, there are many types of ecollars available. I use both on my girls and they are very well trained. I recommend that you read everything on this forum about training. You will find a ton of info on different methods, then you can try them and find which works for you. Ask questions, this is a very friendly forum with many knowledgeable people who are more than willing to help! The only other advice I can give is train, train, train and don't give up!

Sage024 · May 27, 2022

Firestar Dobe said:
A properly fitted prong collar and the correct usage will not harm your dog! A choke collar can actually bruise their trachea. You could try a limited slip collar which works like a prong but without actual prongs. An ecollar will not harm your dog if used properly, there are many types of ecollars available. I use both on my girls and they are very well trained. I recommend that you read everything on this forum about training. You will find a ton of info on different methods, then you can try them and find which works for you. Ask questions, this is a very friendly forum with many knowledgeable people who are more than willing to help! The only other advice I can give is train, train, train and don't give up!

Thank you! I feel like I was so opposed to any sort of aversive training because the breeder always said to use positive reinforcement and other trainers had strong opinions on other tools. At this point I’m starting to think maybe he really does need an e collar or something. He gets really wild sometimes and it’s so hard to snap him out of it without getting physical in some way like pinning him/holding him away with his collar/crating/making a really loud noise. (I know pinning isn’t a great idea, I try to avoid it). He’s great when he wants something, I think he’s pretty high drive. Need to find a way to channel it

Ddski5 · May 27, 2022

Sage024 said:
Thank you for the detailed reply! I’ve gotten so much mixed info about what’s okay to use and not from trainers. I’ve been lead to believe that ecollars and prong collars are bad but choke collars are okay etc. he definitely needs impulse control, we will be working on it

No way in the world, I could have gotten Ragnar to the disciplined machine that he is now without the prong and ECollar- no way. I am sooo proud of him and what he has become. He was a return to breeder because the 1st person could not handle him and then I got him. He acted on all his impulses and just as you state- goes into a wild mentality that was extremely hard to get him to calm down to our reality. Every day after work, I would train with him in the yard for one hour- all the discipline commands. Really did not get control or see a major difference until I started using the prong and ECollar.

To this day, I still use the prong in public for immediate response and zero pulling. I no longer use the Ecollar for anything negative, only use it to allow him to run free offleash- they love it too. I use it more with the vibrate function to notify him he is too far out or I need his attention on me now.

My female Freyja is significantly more sensitive to the prong and Ecollar than Ragnar. She takes very little stim for a corrective reaction. But then, she does not get lost in a frenzied wild state either.

Sage024 · May 27, 2022

Ddski5 said:
No way in the world, I could have gotten Ragnar to the disciplined machine that he is now without the prong and ECollar- no way. I am sooo proud of him and what he has become. He was a return to breeder because the 1st person could not handle him and then I got him. He acted on all his impulses and just as you state- goes into a wild mentality that was extremely hard to get him to calm down to our reality. Every day after work, I would train with him in the yard for one hour- all the discipline commands. Really did not get control or see a major difference until I started using the prong and ECollar.

To this day, I still use the prong in public for immediate response and zero pulling. I no longer use the Ecollar for anything negative, only use it to allow him to run free offleash- they love it too. I use it more with the vibrate function to notify him he is too far out or I need his attention on me now.

My female Freyja is significantly more sensitive to the prong and Ecollar than Ragnar. She takes very little stim for a corrective reaction. But then, she does not get lost in a frenzied wild state either.

Omg this sounds like my Kanda. I got him at 4 months old after his first owner returned to breeder. That owner is a dog trainer in Miami but never had a dobe. He said he couldn’t bond with the dog and that he was too difficult. Maybe I’m dumb but que me taking him in as a first time dog owner (I promise I did a ton of research before adopting him). He has been hard but I can’t imagine my life without him. I want him so badly to be well trained. For the amount I’ve spent on training I could have sent him to a high end board and train at this point. I’ve even had my current trainer say he’s a particularly difficult dog. He gets lots of exercise, he knows basic commands, but he’s super hard headed and alpha. I’m looking into switching trainers again soon, looking at OffLeashK9 in ATL. They use ecollar training and I think that’s what he needs. I’m even considering the board and train to fix some of his reactivity issues but I’m terrified of anyone else taking care of him. And I want to know how to train him. He’s tough but worth it

Ddski5 · May 27, 2022

Wow. That’s kinda similar…

Ragnar was initially with a young couple who had 2y/o triplets. They had an Au Pair (honestly had to look that up- had no idea what/who that was) who said she had extensive experience with Dobermans… uh no, Ragnar tore that house to pieces- hahaha.

I did initial Offleash K9 training out of Baton Rouge but the guy training him lived in Bay St Louis. I think he did a good job. At that time, I had zero knowledge of ECollar and this guy provided a decent foundation for me to work off of.

Ddski5 · May 27, 2022

I am so glad both of mine are trained with the ECollar. It is a great tool for when he is out of reach and allows to run free….but by far, having him on a short lease at my side, with a prong collar on, was/is the best disciplinary tool I have used to date. Gonna sound mean hear, but when Ragnar would blatantly do something that I have asked him not to do 2-3x in a row??? then that calls for an immediate aversive action stimulus to let him know that shit ain’t flying with me. I would grab the leash quickly and lift it up hard and high. He got the negative stimulus and quickly understood not to do it again. I started this after he counter surfed 2 well seasoned steaks on kitchen counter. Poof! Both steaks were gone.

The positive reinforcement trainers would have a fit with this but you have to do what you have to do to get him to stop being a crack head dog and be an accountable Doberman- thus prob saving his life down the road. @Ravenbird explains this better than me.

Ravenbird · May 28, 2022

Ddski5 said:
@Ravenbird explains this better than me.

Nah, you explained it perfectly well. :rofl:

Sage024 said:
looking at OffLeashK9 in ATL. They use ecollar training and I think that’s what he needs. I’m even considering the board and train to fix some of his reactivity is

For sure go to someone who can help you learn to use an e-collar. I'd highly recommend learning it yourself and use board & train as a last choice. Because nothing gets "fixed" at B&T. You'll still have to learn everything they taught him & their methods.

A friend of mine does behavioral training for clients with problem dogs and uses an e-collar & prong collar. Most are just spoiled but some are pretty bad actors. In 6 weeks they are all doing off leash recalls, if the client keeps up their end. She's said more than once that she has people think she will "fix" the problem, but it's the owner who has to stay on top of it. Go to the offleashK9 and do stay in touch to let us know how it goes.

Sage024 · May 29, 2022

Ravenbird said:
Nah, you explained it perfectly well.

For sure go to someone who can help you learn to use an e-collar. I'd highly recommend learning it yourself and use board & train as a last choice. Because nothing gets "fixed" at B&T. You'll still have to learn everything they taught him & their methods.

A friend of mine does behavioral training for clients with problem dogs and uses an e-collar & prong collar. Most are just spoiled but some are pretty bad actors. In 6 weeks they are all doing off leash recalls, if the client keeps up their end. She's said more than once that she has people think she will "fix" the problem, but it's the owner who has to stay on top of it. Go to the offleashK9 and do stay in touch to let us know how it goes.

We are getting a free in person consultation/meet and greet today and I’m bringing my boy. Going to see what they recommend, but definitely want to try ecollar training.

That is my fear with board and train. One concern is, are they treating him well? Is the person caring for him reliable? When I get him back, will he respond to me the way he does the trainers? Will I have missed a bonding opportunity. Will he be too stressed thinking he’s being re homed again? Can I handle two weeks without him? And then cost (2800 for two weeks)

I hope ecollar is the solution! We do leash corrections and he doesn’t seem to care anymore. Treats are great for cute tricks but that’s it. I’ll need to set aside more time in the day to work with him. I’ll keep you all updated!

Doberman Gang · May 29, 2022

Sage024 said:
We are getting a free in person consultation/meet and greet today and I’m bringing my boy. Going to see what they recommend, but definitely want to try ecollar training.

That is my fear with board and train. One concern is, are they treating him well? Is the person caring for him reliable? When I get him back, will he respond to me the way he does the trainers? Will I have missed a bonding opportunity. Will he be too stressed thinking he’s being re homed again? Can I handle two weeks without him? And then cost (2800 for two weeks)

I hope ecollar is the solution! We do leash corrections and he doesn’t seem to care anymore. Treats are great for cute tricks but that’s it. I’ll need to set aside more time in the day to work with him. I’ll keep you all updated!

A girl who used to train with me now lives and owns a training facility in Blue Ridge, Georgia. She is a really good trainer and would highly recommend her if this new trainer doesn’t work out. I believe she also does board and training. Her name is Maureen bit we just call her Mo. Spirited K-9.

Log in to Facebook

Log in to Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Doberman Gang · May 29, 2022

Here is her YouTube in case you don’t have Facebook.

Kane · May 29, 2022

Obedience school! It works

Kane · May 29, 2022

Kane said:
Obedience school! It works

Sage024 · May 29, 2022

Thank you everyone for your advice! The consultation went well and we are going to be doing the 8 week training course. We will go to the facility once a week and then go home and work throughout the week. I’m hopeful!

1 year old male still biting/jumping/pulling

Sage024

Member

Ddski5

Ravenbird

Sage024

Member

Sage024

Member

Firestar Dobe

Sage024

Member

Ddski5

Sage024

Member

Ddski5

Ddski5

Ravenbird

Sage024

Member

Doberman Gang

Log in to Facebook

Doberman Gang

Kane

Novitiate

Attachments

Kane

Novitiate

Attachments

Sage024

Member

Similar threads