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Ragnar at AKC Advanced Obedience

Ddski5

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Preface- months ago went to generalized basic obedience and it was really basic. It was ok but not impressed.

This time I was looking for something more with.... I don’t know just something MORE. Yesterday, I looked into the Baton Rouge AKC club and noticed they had an advanced obedience class but it was that night and too soon. I don’t like to rush, had to plan three soccer practices and Ragnar just got back from board/train. But the next class was in late September. So tonight at 7:00 pm or late September??? I thought, oh well let’s do it......

Got my girls squared away with soccer, pulled up into a local hospital parking lot to register and I look around. Three black GS, two Dobermans, a huge poodle, a beautiful beagle, a Dalmatian and many other dogs. I thought, oh shit this is the real deal not like the basic class we went to.

They had three sections cordoned off for basic, advanced and agility training.

Ragnar and I got out and he immediately went nuts, barking and pulling. He was so nervous and excited, as was I. I maneuvered him to the opposite direction attempting to gain control. He did, but every time we turned towards the other dogs he would start back up again.

Initially, I had my reservations on having the ecollar on but I am glad I decided to put it on him. I pressed vibrate, no correction; I pressed stim on 10, 15, and 20, no correction. Finally at 30, he shaped up and came to my heel and sat. We walked to the register table at heel and he acted up a little bit but corrected well. After we registered, we stayed about 15 feet from the table and watched the different dogs come in. He did well here and I was able to bring the stim down to 15 for correction.

The lady at the table informed me that we had not attended the AKC basic class and wasn’t for sure if we could go straight into the advanced class. I explained he has a basic completed with another trainer and he had just completed the offleash program. She said we could start the advanced but if not up to speed, we would need to go down to basic and the instructor would assess and tell me.

So, during the wait, I walked the parking lot with him and warmed him up- - sit, down, heel, long sit, long down. Even with all the dogs around, he was spot on with minimal corrections rendered. We did that some more and had him lay down slap in the middle of the dog chaos. He just laid there at alert watching it all. We were both nervous but feeling much better now since we had some focus. Many people came over and commented on his ears.

The trainer called us to the advanced section, formed a circle. We were instructed to move our dogs on heel around the circle swerving in/out around the other dogs. Big dogs circling us, oh boy. I held his focus with a hot dog as they came by one by one. Then our turn and he heeled perfectly around the circle. I was critiqued by the instructor because I was not treating him enough during the heel.

Then we lined up side by side and was told to instruct sit and walk forward away from dogs. I did not know when to stop so I stayed in line with the other owners, stopped and turned to face our dogs about 40 ft away. If your dog broke the sit, you had to walk back and reposition and move away again. Some of the other dogs broke and distracted Ragnar. The entire time the instructor was watching Ragnar. He never broke his sit. The instructor then stated, this exercise is over. She turned and winked at me and said you have a very fine Doberman. I absolutely blew up inside!!!

We went through some more exercises and Ragnar did well. Close to the end, he got antsy and got tired. I did not stim, I just gave him treats and told him how good he was doing. I really wanted to end the night fun and positive and not on a stim correction.

After it was over, the instructor pulled me aside and said she could tell we were new to the game (they had a lot of repeat dogs there), but we did just fine. She gave me some pointers on the formal schematics of position and placements of Ragnar during exercises but all and all she was pleased to have us in the class and looked forward to seeing us next week.

It really felt like things had come together with Ragnar and I and I was very proud that we were not recycled to the basic class.

The ecollar helped a lot. Though, at times, it may have been unpleasant to him. It allowed me to gain control and direct his focus. Without it, I believe it would have been a disaster from the start.

If anybody has any critiques or comments on what I could have done better, please let me know. I really want to do this right and train Ragnar to what I dream of him being.
 
:wow:You must be bursting with pride!

I would have followed the lead of the other owners as well and gone 40 ft expecting Kaiser to be right behind me haha. It's downright inspiring to hear how well he did :love:

All this time I've been fixated on whether to get Kaiser fixed, but I believe another direction is in order. I found a working dog club just outside the city with 2 Dobes. I was hesitating with it because it's like pulling teeth making you know who to just go to Rally class. Time to finally check them out and time for the ecollar.
 
Grats and aren't you glad you went for it?! I've done the same as you with jumping in an advanced obed class just for the fun of it. And its so worth it because you get exposure to a ton of activity but the key ingredient is it is in a controlled environment. Somewhere where there is a person looking out for you and able to provide pointers and help you work on specific needs, and give you that boost of encouragement or critique that you need!

I'm surprised that an AKC obed class was ok with the ecollar? They definitely aren't allowed at AKC shows and not even prongs, pfft. Did they know about it? If so that is awesome. Hopefully they'll be able to help you work on getting him performing just like that without it on...that would be a great goal to achieve and I'm positive with enough practice you guys could do it!

Excellent job with Ragnar!
 
Great job!! Glad it worked out for you. I am also surprised the collar was allowed. They wouldn’t let us use it at one of the classes we attended.
The training classes we attend now allow use of ecollar after demonstrating we know how to use it but we are only allowed to use it if our dog is really out of control. Then we are pulled to the side and given instructions on getting our dog under control.
It is hard for me sometimes because I am working my two together. Makes me proud when they work in tandem with commands but when they don’t it can be chaos.:pullhair:
 
Grats and aren't you glad you went for it?! I've done the same as you with jumping in an advanced obed class just for the fun of it. And its so worth it because you get exposure to a ton of activity but the key ingredient is it is in a controlled environment. Somewhere where there is a person looking out for you and able to provide pointers and help you work on specific needs, and give you that boost of encouragement or critique that you need!

I'm surprised that an AKC obed class was ok with the ecollar? They definitely aren't allowed at AKC shows and not even prongs, pfft. Did they know about it? If so that is awesome. Hopefully they'll be able to help you work on getting him performing just like that without it on...that would be a great goal to achieve and I'm positive with enough practice you guys could do it!

Excellent job with Ragnar!
I know at the AKC club I used to teach at, prong collars were always allowed and sold there. Ecollars were only allowed in classes where the instructor had knowledge on how to train them, which was only a few of us.
 
Preface- months ago went to generalized basic obedience and it was really basic. It was ok but not impressed.

This time I was looking for something more with.... I don’t know just something MORE. Yesterday, I looked into the Baton Rouge AKC club and noticed they had an advanced obedience class but it was that night and too soon. I don’t like to rush, had to plan three soccer practices and Ragnar just got back from board/train. But the next class was in late September. So tonight at 7:00 pm or late September??? I thought, oh well let’s do it......

Got my girls squared away with soccer, pulled up into a local hospital parking lot to register and I look around. Three black GS, two Dobermans, a huge poodle, a beautiful beagle, a Dalmatian and many other dogs. I thought, oh shit this is the real deal not like the basic class we went to.

They had three sections cordoned off for basic, advanced and agility training.

Ragnar and I got out and he immediately went nuts, barking and pulling. He was so nervous and excited, as was I. I maneuvered him to the opposite direction attempting to gain control. He did, but every time we turned towards the other dogs he would start back up again.

Initially, I had my reservations on having the ecollar on but I am glad I decided to put it on him. I pressed vibrate, no correction; I pressed stim on 10, 15, and 20, no correction. Finally at 30, he shaped up and came to my heel and sat. We walked to the register table at heel and he acted up a little bit but corrected well. After we registered, we stayed about 15 feet from the table and watched the different dogs come in. He did well here and I was able to bring the stim down to 15 for correction.

The lady at the table informed me that we had not attended the AKC basic class and wasn’t for sure if we could go straight into the advanced class. I explained he has a basic completed with another trainer and he had just completed the offleash program. She said we could start the advanced but if not up to speed, we would need to go down to basic and the instructor would assess and tell me.

So, during the wait, I walked the parking lot with him and warmed him up- - sit, down, heel, long sit, long down. Even with all the dogs around, he was spot on with minimal corrections rendered. We did that some more and had him lay down slap in the middle of the dog chaos. He just laid there at alert watching it all. We were both nervous but feeling much better now since we had some focus. Many people came over and commented on his ears.

The trainer called us to the advanced section, formed a circle. We were instructed to move our dogs on heel around the circle swerving in/out around the other dogs. Big dogs circling us, oh boy. I held his focus with a hot dog as they came by one by one. Then our turn and he heeled perfectly around the circle. I was critiqued by the instructor because I was not treating him enough during the heel.

Then we lined up side by side and was told to instruct sit and walk forward away from dogs. I did not know when to stop so I stayed in line with the other owners, stopped and turned to face our dogs about 40 ft away. If your dog broke the sit, you had to walk back and reposition and move away again. Some of the other dogs broke and distracted Ragnar. The entire time the instructor was watching Ragnar. He never broke his sit. The instructor then stated, this exercise is over. She turned and winked at me and said you have a very fine Doberman. I absolutely blew up inside!!!

We went through some more exercises and Ragnar did well. Close to the end, he got antsy and got tired. I did not stim, I just gave him treats and told him how good he was doing. I really wanted to end the night fun and positive and not on a stim correction.

After it was over, the instructor pulled me aside and said she could tell we were new to the game (they had a lot of repeat dogs there), but we did just fine. She gave me some pointers on the formal schematics of position and placements of Ragnar during exercises but all and all she was pleased to have us in the class and looked forward to seeing us next week.

It really felt like things had come together with Ragnar and I and I was very proud that we were not recycled to the basic class.

The ecollar helped a lot. Though, at times, it may have been unpleasant to him. It allowed me to gain control and direct his focus. Without it, I believe it would have been a disaster from the start.

If anybody has any critiques or comments on what I could have done better, please let me know. I really want to do this right and train Ragnar to what I dream of him being.
Congratulations, sounds like you guys are doing an excellent job as a team.
Funny that the instructor said you were not treating Ragnar Enough, that is one of the things I tell my people the most. Everyone wants to get to the point where there is no treats in training. When we go out to a field or training area with our dogs we are wanting to work on obedience but our dogs are just hoping to play with us and get a reward. So, play and reward always will be a huge part of training. Sometimes rewarding after every exercise sometimes every 3rd exercise or 7th exercise or more. Then back to after every exercise again. Random reinforcement, our dogs never know when the play or reward will come, there anticipation for the reward will increase there drive and focus on us. If we continuously decrease rewards or play eventually are dogs will check out on us during training and only give attention for short periods during training. This is when people will start correcting the dog to get focus which can eventually kill drive and become stressful to the dog. Sorry for the long explanation.

Keep up the good work and have fun.
 
@Kaiser2016
I don’t know how to explain it. I pull up there and see all that action going on and all those big confident dogs and I’m thinking, “oh man, this is gonna be bad and embarrassing”. But I just kept thinking to myself that you have to start somewhere-somehow and the Army always taught me to say “#%ck it, let’s go”

I don’t know, it’s like he knew he was there to work, he watched the other dogs and followed suit with what the environment dictated. Now, yes, initially he was directed a lot with the ecollar to get him in focus but after the first ten minutes the ecollar corrections were minimal.

Did I think he was going to behave and be focused, no I did not- even with ecollar. I thought we would try advanced and get kicked down to basic. But damn he flipped the bird to me and made me feel bad for doubting him.

Remember the time I told about my breeder wanted me to bring him inside of a full bore dog show? No way I was going to do it, just no way bring him untrained into an auditorium full of show dogs. She said, move back and she grabbed Ragnar and took off. She pranced Ragnar through ~50 dogs and he never barked or lunged.

It is not all Ragnar that needs to be trained. I need to be instructed and improve my confidence with him. I kinda think of it as he is an M1Abrams tank sitting there ready to be handled but I have to learn how to drive/Fire the tank for him to be effective.

Don’t doubt yourself, especially don’t doubt Kaiser. How do you know what he has until you untap it? I say at least try, as said- everybody started somewhere-somehow.
 
I think the confidence factor is a huge thing and I did take note of it when your breeder walked him around the ring with all the other dogs present.

At our Thursday Rally class the first course practice was horrible because I was flustered, the second course we did much better, 3-6 we killed it. My hb has been saying that these classes are like teaching circus tricks to a tiger lol, what's the point? Agree with the tank analogy as well. Can't use a tool to its full potential if you don't know how it works.
 
@Tropicalbri's
@Rits

I too was surprised, the only person who said anything about the ecollar was our instructor and she waited until after the class.

I was surprised I did not get any awnry looks when waiting for the class to begin. I am guilty of pre-judging the AKC persona, because I thought it was going to be a bunch of snooty AKC folks. There were a lot of high class looking dogs there. On the contrar, they were welcoming and helpful. Hopefully, next time one of my daughters will go and take pictures.

My last post was very long and I left some things out. One thing about the ecollar: at the beginning, it was asked if any of us had an aggressive dog against other dogs/people. Everybody looked around and no one said anything but me. I told them, “I really don’t know. Ragnar has never attacked or bitten but he gets very excited and rambunctious with other dogs”. Maybe this was one of the reasons they did not make any remarks on the ecollar.

At the end of the class, the instructor asked me about my goals I wrote down during registration- one was to minimize ecollar stim and replace with treat rewards and eagerness/happiness. She said not to worry, it will come. She has two Australian Shepherds, one needs the ecollar and the other does not.

She then told me that she has done this for awhile. She can tell that some people have fine dogs, some don’t. She prob observed my worry and nervousness because she again stated that Ragnar was a very fine Doberman.

Sorry, I know I keep going on about him but I am very happy and now see it is possible.....

I say to do it @Kaiser2016. I am now on the fields and it is basically empty because Saturday morn. I have been working him offleash with ecollar and it is great. Only stim corrected about ten times. I sometimes think now the leash is a obstacle in training. Maybe he feels the complete restriction and reacts to the leash instead of my instruction.
 
@Doberman Gang

You are right about the treats.

That was my exact thinking. I wanted him to react because of my commands, not because I was giving treats.

The instructor told me she uses cans of cheese whiz. I don’t know how good it is nutrient wise but she said that during heel, when he is at your side in right position, it is easy to squirt the cheese whiz in his mouth and to let it fly.
 
Sorry, I know I keep going on about him but I am very happy and now see it is possible.....
Never apologize for being proud of your Doberman. You have done a great job with his training and it’s only going to get better. It shows how much work you have put into him and I love seeing all of yours and Ragnar’s accomplishments. He is a beautiful dog with endless potential.
 
These dogs are so smart.
I have been working on training the twins NOT to run through the flower gardens. It seems it’s been an ongoing battle from day one.
Bogie is notorious for barking and whining when he wants me to get his ball for him. I always tell him that he can get it and to stop the whining. This morning we were downstairs and he was relentless with whining and yipping for me to get his ball. The ball was in full view about 3’ away. I couldn’t understand WHY he didn’t just get it.
It finally dawned on me...it was in the flower bed. :facepalm:
Obviously I need more training.:rofl:
Good boy Bogie!!
 
I have been working on training the twins NOT to run through the flower gardens. It seems it’s been an ongoing battle from day one.
Bogie is notorious for barking and whining when he wants me to get his ball for him. I always tell him that he can get it and to stop the whining. This morning we were downstairs and he was relentless with whining and yipping for me to get his ball. The ball was in full view about 3’ away. I couldn’t understand WHY he didn’t just get it.
It finally dawned on me...it was in the flower bed. :facepalm:
Obviously I need more training.:rofl:
Good boy Bogie!!

Once I plant my veggie garden I walk Grace around the perimeter and instruct her it's a no fly zone....I use the prong collar as we walk by it and every time she looks a it she gets a little pull...then it's all settled. She will look at a toy and lay in the prone position and whine till I get it...it doesn't take but a few sessions.:D
 
They are actually great dogs, they are water retriever dogs. The hair is heavy when wet so they shave it on the rear to lessen the weight of water drag. It’s Pom pons on the ankle and hips are to protect the joints and keep them warm in the water and the chest area is left long to protect the organs from getting cold. Their top notch help keep hair from their eyes while retrieving. The cuts actually serve a purpose regardless of how silly we think it looks. They are intelligent, protective of family and an easily trained sport dog. Their silly looking cuts put a lot of people off but they have great energy and love working. Of course I am speaking to the standard poodle.
 

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