DoberMink
Member
Hey again!
Ok, so I know that I want my Ivan to be a well behaved, obedient, companion. However I also want him to be social worh people and other animals because I am and don't want to give that ip just because of a misunderstood breed.
I know that socialization is an important part of that and know that I should start young. So I have been taking him to stores whenever I can, but that's a bit limited right now and unpredictable since there's no guarantee people will be at the stores with animals.
Since Ivan is now 12 weeks old I figured it's about time I look into puppy classes. I can work on obedience on my own and know that puppy classes are more of a structured opportunity than an actual 'class' per-say.
Yesterday was socialization day and I took Ivan to both major petstores. Petsmart was first and already had a group class going so I just watched a bit and moved on since the trainer was busy. Picked up some chews and a new toy and headed to petco.
Now, I usually ADORE my petco. The staff have always been friendly, knowledgable, and humble, admitting when they don't know something and finding a co-worker who can best answer my qyestions. They alre always clean and their animals always look very healthy.
Now to the whole point of this post however...the trainer. Before I begin, I'd like to ask you to think of qualities you believe make a bad trainer and keep them in mind when you reply to this (if you do) so that I may have a better understanding.
Ok, so I have seen this trainer in action before and heard him talk. My first 'bad taste' was when I was in the store and a large guy who was apparently a fire fighter, had his family (wife, 3 year old son, and a newborn) and their cery new belgian malimois 'puppy' who was 9 months old I believe. I looove malimois and so asked to pet him. The guy was more than happy to allow me to pet and as he and I talked about his dog Sophie (my older, smaller dog) was introducing herself to te big guy, who remained polite and well behaved. As we were talking the guy tells me how the dog is a rescue and was really bad on the leash and just a total mess but how he was working on it with him. I complimented him on his efforts since whatever he was doing was clearly working. Que the trainer...This guy walks over and first compliments the owner on such a good looking boy, then proceeds to tell him that I shouldn't be allowed to pet him because I'm a stranger. He then goes into his little speach about working dogs and explaines his experience of being military K-9 and how he trains law enforcement and personal protection as a private business. He initially comes off as unsolicited, unwanted info, but seems very knowledgeable and experienced. This was before I ever thought I'd be blessed with a large dog at all, let alone a Dobe.
I've watched this guy several times while training. He was always a bit 'intense' but could get any dog he worked with behaving in pretty much 1 session (from what I could tell). Even yesterday I wasltched a mother and her 12ish year old son come in with a massive, unruly pittie and with just one walk around the store te trainer had the pit trotting nicely beside him, and had the kid trying too.
This led me to try getting over my previous opinion of this guy and when I was about to leave the store decided I would ask him about socialization and puppy classes. Wow did I regret that after 10 minutes....
I started out explaining that I have never been in puppy classes before but was interested. He asks me 'why'. I explainthat I'd like to work on basic obedience and socialization. He then asks me if I even know what socialization is.... (keep in mind that I am a regular in this store and have almost always brough my other dog here and constantly get compliments on how well behaved she is). I try to ignore the accusatory tone in his voice and answer his question with something along the lines of "it's when a dog can be around other dogs and people and get along". He firmly corrects me and tells me that socialization is just taking a dog around different places and things to gwt them ised to strange noises, smells, and such. Thinking to myself I believe he just defined 'desensitization' NOT socialization. I let thisbslide though because he then asked me what it is I want from my dog. I feel this is a fair question and answer. "I'd like to be able to take him to a dog park and not worry about him being agressive or fearful". He then tells me that is NOT what I want and that dog parks are terrible places because only untrained dogs go there and it's dangerous.
Pause: we are interupted by another customer who came up with a question about 2 types of control collars. One is a pinch, so I am interested in what the trainer has to say. The customer explaines that he has a golden retriever who is pulling so hard that she's hurting herself. The first thing the trainer said is "you don't need eith of those, it's not the sog, it's you"....now...in my mind, wether or not it IS the customer...is that really an acceptable way to begin things? The trainer told (didn't ask, but basically ordered) him to go get his dog that he could 'fix' her in 2 minutes. The guy looked a bit surlrised, but obeyed. Next thing I see is this tall guy with a medium sized golden about pulling him off his feet. The guy is using a retractable leash. The trainer again calls out the 'ignorance' of the owner by lecturing him about using a retractable leash. He then (without asking) kneels down and swaps the retractable leash to his own leather one, and starts walking the dog, giving a hard jerk any time the dog (who is only 9 months) pulls. He then starts walking VERY quickly back and forth, randomly changing directions and giving another HARD jerk every time. This was a little hard for me to qatch. I know what a correction is, but this trainer is pulling this puppy about off it's feet with every jerk. Sure enough, 2 minutes in the dog isn't pulling. She wants tonsit. She's panting like CRAZY and now he doesn't let her sit. Watching this makes ME tired!
The trainer focuses on me again while the other guy practices walking his dog.
This brings us back to how my puppy should be trained. By now though, I'm a bit zoned out. I just don't LIKE this trainer! But he keeps talking to me about things like how people will steal my dog because he's socialized and how I won't have a protective dog if I let just anyone aproach me then makesa point by reaching out and touching me and telling me that my dog shouldn't let anyone come up to me to be able to touch me....
Um...Ok...so at point did I say I wanted an over protective attack dog? That is NOT why I got a doberman....
Now, at only 12 weeks old, through what little socialization I have been able to do, I can keep my puppy in a sit as a much more rambunctious dog walks by (remember that pittie I told you about earlier? He was very excited to come meet Ivan during his training and I kept Ivan at a sit as the dog walked by, pulling to get to us, not once did he stand, lung, or bark!) And, as I have been standing and listening (since I'm not really allowed to talk apparently) I have kept Ivan in a sit for a long time, even with other dogs and people walking by since we are in the front of the store. If he gets up, O give a light tug for attention, and two gentle upward tugs with the sit command, and he amazingly obeys and is ince more aitting. He wasn't jumping, throwing a tantrum, or doing anything at all 'puppy like' (this is a bit amazing to me if you have read my other posts).
So, what do I REALLY want in my dobe? An obedient, socially acceptable dog who can be playful when off leash, and well behaved on leash. Is that REALLY too much to ask?
According to this trainer, yes! Apparently he doesn't believe in having a protective family pet that can also be social. This is terribly confusing to me because what this is telling me, is that I am doing wrong by myself and my dog if he isn't 100% attack ready when in public. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that's what I (as the owner) am getting out of this terribly belitting 'conversation' (aka, lecture).
Pause: we are interupted by a nice young lady who sees Ivan sitting nicely and ASKS if she can pet him. I thank her for asking and allow it. Instructing her to pet under the chin instead of over the head because he kind of flinched. I am IMMEDIATELY reprimanded by te trainer infront of the young lady, 3 of her friends. Another employee, AND the guy with the golden. I should NEVER let a stranger pet my dog because....and he goes into some long winded explication about energy and scent and how I am encouraging people to steal my dog and not have a protective dog.....this quickly had the NICE young lady running away...
Now, I know that every owner has a preference and know that some of you on here prefer your dog not to be petted by strangers, and that is your choice. But I don't want that restriction on myself or my dog. And maybe I am wrong. But as his owner, I feel it's my choice. Am I being overly sensitive to this?
The lecture goes on until I can't take it any more and with a smile and a thank you I peel myself away. There was nore to what he was saying, and I did get some interesting information from him. But I know I will NEVER ask him even a simple question again.
Anyway, I know this has been a suuuuper long post. I hope I haven't lost you yet. If not, thank you for reading. I was just SO frustrated by this trainer treating not just my dog, but like every dog should be a personal attack animal....
Thoughts? Opinions?
Ok, so I know that I want my Ivan to be a well behaved, obedient, companion. However I also want him to be social worh people and other animals because I am and don't want to give that ip just because of a misunderstood breed.
I know that socialization is an important part of that and know that I should start young. So I have been taking him to stores whenever I can, but that's a bit limited right now and unpredictable since there's no guarantee people will be at the stores with animals.
Since Ivan is now 12 weeks old I figured it's about time I look into puppy classes. I can work on obedience on my own and know that puppy classes are more of a structured opportunity than an actual 'class' per-say.
Yesterday was socialization day and I took Ivan to both major petstores. Petsmart was first and already had a group class going so I just watched a bit and moved on since the trainer was busy. Picked up some chews and a new toy and headed to petco.
Now, I usually ADORE my petco. The staff have always been friendly, knowledgable, and humble, admitting when they don't know something and finding a co-worker who can best answer my qyestions. They alre always clean and their animals always look very healthy.
Now to the whole point of this post however...the trainer. Before I begin, I'd like to ask you to think of qualities you believe make a bad trainer and keep them in mind when you reply to this (if you do) so that I may have a better understanding.
Ok, so I have seen this trainer in action before and heard him talk. My first 'bad taste' was when I was in the store and a large guy who was apparently a fire fighter, had his family (wife, 3 year old son, and a newborn) and their cery new belgian malimois 'puppy' who was 9 months old I believe. I looove malimois and so asked to pet him. The guy was more than happy to allow me to pet and as he and I talked about his dog Sophie (my older, smaller dog) was introducing herself to te big guy, who remained polite and well behaved. As we were talking the guy tells me how the dog is a rescue and was really bad on the leash and just a total mess but how he was working on it with him. I complimented him on his efforts since whatever he was doing was clearly working. Que the trainer...This guy walks over and first compliments the owner on such a good looking boy, then proceeds to tell him that I shouldn't be allowed to pet him because I'm a stranger. He then goes into his little speach about working dogs and explaines his experience of being military K-9 and how he trains law enforcement and personal protection as a private business. He initially comes off as unsolicited, unwanted info, but seems very knowledgeable and experienced. This was before I ever thought I'd be blessed with a large dog at all, let alone a Dobe.
I've watched this guy several times while training. He was always a bit 'intense' but could get any dog he worked with behaving in pretty much 1 session (from what I could tell). Even yesterday I wasltched a mother and her 12ish year old son come in with a massive, unruly pittie and with just one walk around the store te trainer had the pit trotting nicely beside him, and had the kid trying too.
This led me to try getting over my previous opinion of this guy and when I was about to leave the store decided I would ask him about socialization and puppy classes. Wow did I regret that after 10 minutes....
I started out explaining that I have never been in puppy classes before but was interested. He asks me 'why'. I explainthat I'd like to work on basic obedience and socialization. He then asks me if I even know what socialization is.... (keep in mind that I am a regular in this store and have almost always brough my other dog here and constantly get compliments on how well behaved she is). I try to ignore the accusatory tone in his voice and answer his question with something along the lines of "it's when a dog can be around other dogs and people and get along". He firmly corrects me and tells me that socialization is just taking a dog around different places and things to gwt them ised to strange noises, smells, and such. Thinking to myself I believe he just defined 'desensitization' NOT socialization. I let thisbslide though because he then asked me what it is I want from my dog. I feel this is a fair question and answer. "I'd like to be able to take him to a dog park and not worry about him being agressive or fearful". He then tells me that is NOT what I want and that dog parks are terrible places because only untrained dogs go there and it's dangerous.
Pause: we are interupted by another customer who came up with a question about 2 types of control collars. One is a pinch, so I am interested in what the trainer has to say. The customer explaines that he has a golden retriever who is pulling so hard that she's hurting herself. The first thing the trainer said is "you don't need eith of those, it's not the sog, it's you"....now...in my mind, wether or not it IS the customer...is that really an acceptable way to begin things? The trainer told (didn't ask, but basically ordered) him to go get his dog that he could 'fix' her in 2 minutes. The guy looked a bit surlrised, but obeyed. Next thing I see is this tall guy with a medium sized golden about pulling him off his feet. The guy is using a retractable leash. The trainer again calls out the 'ignorance' of the owner by lecturing him about using a retractable leash. He then (without asking) kneels down and swaps the retractable leash to his own leather one, and starts walking the dog, giving a hard jerk any time the dog (who is only 9 months) pulls. He then starts walking VERY quickly back and forth, randomly changing directions and giving another HARD jerk every time. This was a little hard for me to qatch. I know what a correction is, but this trainer is pulling this puppy about off it's feet with every jerk. Sure enough, 2 minutes in the dog isn't pulling. She wants tonsit. She's panting like CRAZY and now he doesn't let her sit. Watching this makes ME tired!
The trainer focuses on me again while the other guy practices walking his dog.
This brings us back to how my puppy should be trained. By now though, I'm a bit zoned out. I just don't LIKE this trainer! But he keeps talking to me about things like how people will steal my dog because he's socialized and how I won't have a protective dog if I let just anyone aproach me then makesa point by reaching out and touching me and telling me that my dog shouldn't let anyone come up to me to be able to touch me....
Um...Ok...so at point did I say I wanted an over protective attack dog? That is NOT why I got a doberman....
Now, at only 12 weeks old, through what little socialization I have been able to do, I can keep my puppy in a sit as a much more rambunctious dog walks by (remember that pittie I told you about earlier? He was very excited to come meet Ivan during his training and I kept Ivan at a sit as the dog walked by, pulling to get to us, not once did he stand, lung, or bark!) And, as I have been standing and listening (since I'm not really allowed to talk apparently) I have kept Ivan in a sit for a long time, even with other dogs and people walking by since we are in the front of the store. If he gets up, O give a light tug for attention, and two gentle upward tugs with the sit command, and he amazingly obeys and is ince more aitting. He wasn't jumping, throwing a tantrum, or doing anything at all 'puppy like' (this is a bit amazing to me if you have read my other posts).
So, what do I REALLY want in my dobe? An obedient, socially acceptable dog who can be playful when off leash, and well behaved on leash. Is that REALLY too much to ask?
According to this trainer, yes! Apparently he doesn't believe in having a protective family pet that can also be social. This is terribly confusing to me because what this is telling me, is that I am doing wrong by myself and my dog if he isn't 100% attack ready when in public. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that's what I (as the owner) am getting out of this terribly belitting 'conversation' (aka, lecture).
Pause: we are interupted by a nice young lady who sees Ivan sitting nicely and ASKS if she can pet him. I thank her for asking and allow it. Instructing her to pet under the chin instead of over the head because he kind of flinched. I am IMMEDIATELY reprimanded by te trainer infront of the young lady, 3 of her friends. Another employee, AND the guy with the golden. I should NEVER let a stranger pet my dog because....and he goes into some long winded explication about energy and scent and how I am encouraging people to steal my dog and not have a protective dog.....this quickly had the NICE young lady running away...
Now, I know that every owner has a preference and know that some of you on here prefer your dog not to be petted by strangers, and that is your choice. But I don't want that restriction on myself or my dog. And maybe I am wrong. But as his owner, I feel it's my choice. Am I being overly sensitive to this?
The lecture goes on until I can't take it any more and with a smile and a thank you I peel myself away. There was nore to what he was saying, and I did get some interesting information from him. But I know I will NEVER ask him even a simple question again.
Anyway, I know this has been a suuuuper long post. I hope I haven't lost you yet. If not, thank you for reading. I was just SO frustrated by this trainer treating not just my dog, but like every dog should be a personal attack animal....
Thoughts? Opinions?
lol had to get after you lol 
