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Why is raw feeding so hard for the neophyte to understand?

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There are many dogs fed kibble that have liver and kidney issues. Dog food producers don't want to lose their profits... you will find many articles against raw feeding online.
My dogs love raw. They are healthy and happy. That's all I need.
 
I red a few articles you posted and agree raw food should be balanced. There is no problem with phosphorus/calcium balance if you add eggshells and ground bone to the muscle meat.
Kelp is a great source of iodine. I add oatmeal as a fiber and good nutrition source. My dogs have balanced raw diet.
Definitely raw feeding may cause health issues if a pet is fed pork only. I repeated many times - DO YOUR RESEARCH before you start feeding raw and adjust it to your dogs need.
I do blood and urine tests to monitor my dogs health.

There is no risk of bacterial contamination for dogs. Their stomach acidity is much higher. They need good and bad bacteria. So do humans.

Here is an answer I found in one of articles you posted:
"Becoming competent in nutrition requires a great deal of reading and research — most of which is boring, contradictory, and confusing. We understand why the majority of veterinarians do not elect to spend their continuing education time on studying this field; it's so much easier and more efficient to recommend a bag of commercial pet food."
 
Funding for this research was provided, in part, by Nestlé Purina’s Veterinary Student Summer Research Grant Program awarded to Dr. Jennifer Lenz.

Consider who FUNDED the research and WHY?
and then you often find why there are results found in favor or against something being studed. .... If this has been INDEPENDENT NON biased research? I would have given it more weight or value....
the numbers of dogs studied were 40 or 42 and some did not finish the participation... how can one glean any kind of merit worthy values of anything with such a small study... hardly conclusive of anything beyond minor conclusions nothing that any real study would consider worth paying attention to unless one was trying to support an agenda... aka Nestle' Purina promoting their dog food is better than what 'god made' kind of thing...
 
Funding for this research was provided, in part, by Nestlé Purina’s Veterinary Student Summer Research Grant Program awarded to Dr. Jennifer Lenz.

Consider who FUNDED the research and WHY?
and then you often find why there are results found in favor or against something being studed. .... If this has been INDEPENDENT NON biased research? I would have given it more weight or value....
the numbers of dogs studied were 40 or 42 and some did not finish the participation... how can one glean any kind of merit worthy values of anything with such a small study... hardly conclusive of anything beyond minor conclusions nothing that any real study would consider worth paying attention to unless one was trying to support an agenda... aka Nestle' Purina promoting their dog food is better than what 'god made' kind of thing...
I must admit that one of those study wasn't totally independent (sorry about that) but anyway the study wasn't saying anything very important except that they needed more studies to verify the safety of raw food diets for the general public. (here's that non-independent study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2684052/?tool=pubmed

That beeing said, I took the time to check most (almost all) of the authors for impartiality:
the only study agreeing with raw diet is conducted by Dr. Lea Stogdale, DVM. Well, I found that she's working at http://aesopsvetcare.wordpress.com/ This holistic clinic offers ''Nutritional Consultations for home prepared diets''. We can probably say she has an interest in promoting raw diets...
Sadly, this was the only study I found in favor of raw feeding. Maybe I didn't looked hard enough, but there isn't any on my favorites
All the other authors I checked weren't affiliated with anything that can compromise the impartiality of their studies.

I don't want to be out of line here, but I think I missed the part where you provide any scientific evidence in favor of raw diets for dogs
 
I could not find any scientific evidence that soup cooked from scratch is healthier than canned one... but I believe it is ;)
That's great to have variety of choices.

My dogs eat kibble for breakfast (25-30% of their daily meal). I am too lazy to prepare raw food in AM.
 
My last post wasn't meant as an attack to everyone preferring raw diets, I think I got a bit carried away at the end...

But what I meant, was that I'm someone who likes scientific facts and even if raw diets seems very logic in theory, I just can't find anything to prove it's better than premium kibble. Believe me, if I ever find a good study about raw food diet, I'll be the first to switch as I just want the best for my Dobie.:)

And while I agree with you about the soup, I'm pretty sure there's lots of study suggesting home cooked meals are better than canned foods :jk:
 
WoW well after reading all of these posts I find myself a bit weary lol.. I am a simpleton I guess but I have and probably always will feed mine kibble and I add a bit of meat in with it and that's it for us..:bag: oh and I eat cereal and I like meat on my pizza:rofl:
 
I definitely consider myself a neophyte when it comes to the raw diet, but I tried it with my Doberman when I first got her from the rescue, and both she and I agree that it's not for her. I started by trying to gradually introduce raw foods into her diet (raw chicken specifically) but she got a terrible case of the runs and so gassy and completely whiny, lethargic and miserable that I had to take her to the vet because I thought she was experiencing a blockage. X-rays showed no blockage, but she was windy and had painful stomach cramps from diarrhea for days after). The vet suggested fasting her for a day then putting her back on her kibble and canned food diet (Blue Wilderness and Blue Buffalo canned) and after about a week she returned back to normal.

I do give her an occasional meaty bone (lamb femur) as a treat, but after a week of nursing a cramping and miserable Doberman, I most likely won't try a raw diet again. Power to others who can feed their dogs raw diets succesfully though.
 
I believe raw is God given and kibble are made by Man.

Who would support a good, solid study into raw diets? What would happen if the results reflect negatively on commercial diets and positively on raw diets? Can you image an impact?
What do you think about pet food recalls? Is not it safer to prepare your dog's food at home and have control of what is included and where it comes from?

I definitely consider myself a neophyte when it comes to the raw diet, but I tried it with my Doberman when I first got her from the rescue, and both she and I agree that it's not for her. I started by trying to gradually introduce raw foods into her diet (raw chicken specifically) but she got a terrible case of the runs and so gassy and completely whiny, lethargic and miserable that I had to take her to the vet because I thought she was experiencing a blockage. X-rays showed no blockage, but she was windy and had painful stomach cramps from diarrhea for days after). The vet suggested fasting her for a day then putting her back on her kibble and canned food diet (Blue Wilderness and Blue Buffalo canned) and after about a week she returned back to normal.

I do give her an occasional meaty bone (lamb femur) as a treat, but after a week of nursing a cramping and miserable Doberman, I most likely won't try a raw diet again. Power to others who can feed their dogs raw diets succesfully though.
Not all dogs are doing well on raw diet. If your girl had a negative experience with raw chicken you have no other choice than feed kibble. No reason for debates.
 
If ya think about it every thing on earth made by man has all the ingredients in it created by God! :)I just chose a middle road and try to get a good kibble along with a bit of raw too.. Lazy me I guess ;but my guys are heathly so we are happy in our little world lol;)
 
I have chosen middle road too :) and feed my dogs kibble in AM.

I don't cook food at home all the time either... we like to go out :)
 
DV: If there was a good study on the subject, I don't think the impact would be that great for many reasons. One of them is, like you mentioned, raw diet isn't for every dog. I also know a few people at the dog park who tried it and went back to kibble cause their dog didn't do well on it. Secondly, raw diet is a lot more trouble than any other diets. Just think about the extra place in the freezer, the precautions to avoid bacteria contamination to human food, the extra money and the time taken to make sure your dog has everything he needs etc...

I do agree with you that home cooked meals could be a lot better than any kind of kibble if you know what you're doing. (Except I'd probably cook those meats first, but that's just me..lol)
I used to do amateur bodybuilding for many years and I'm pretty good in the nutrition department, but I must admit I know very little about dog nutritional requirements. Until I learn more about dog nutrition, I'll stick with kibble and the added meat/fish leftover from the table. I'm still open to new ideas though, I still have much to learn from you guys/gals :)
 
Be careful with leftovers. Salty and spicy food is not good for dogs... and fat food may cause pacreatitis in dogs.
Don't you think your dog might get upset stomach after being fed leftover?
 
http://www.catscradlecatahoulas.com/assets/applets/EvolutionaryNutritionfortheDog.pdf

Maia; there is a wealth of information out there in favor of raw diets and a wealth of information NOT in favor of it. If I see a study like the ones you provided I always look to see who funded it and why? Since the argument is a hotly debated one that affects billions of dollars in revenue for the dog food companies if people begin to distrust them and begin to wane from purchasing their products.
I see hotly debated forums and topics all the time and recently read an article by a Vet who claims he is some kind of a scientist and debates hotly against Raw foods... I wonder why... I wonder why anyone would argue the benefits of feeding a diet that consists of natural food that is not processed, does not come from a can or a bag or a box which was created by some large conglomerate company that has their hands in every part of that food production... Nestle for example... Hunt corporation and others. These companies own graineries, stockyards, rendering plants, process all kinds of foods and have waste products that can be utilized in the production of a marketable commodity like dog and cat food... I am just skeptical by nature and I simply cannot accept that Purina knows more about feeding my dog than I do... Its a canine, it has relatives that are still on the planet finding food for themselves in the wild and they do so by killing and eating other animals. If the dogs relatives are out there still surviving on what nature designed them to eat and they only die early because of the reality of the struggle for life that exists as a predator who seeks prey.... if I removed the requirement for my dogs to have to 'hunt' and 'kill' their food, but provided them the diet that they themselves would seek out and will seek out when we are all gone from this planet... then why do I have to question IF that is whats best for them?
IF they are the man made evolution of the wolf and for centuries they have eaten raw food and eaten our scraps and eaten meat and bone and some berries or some fruit or melon and some fish and some eggs when they could get it? WHY should I now believe that Purina who has only been around creating dog food for the past 60 or so years in that time become an 'authority' on what dogs or animals for that matter need to eat?
When did the laws of nature become obsolete as a model for what is good for us and our pets? We are the fattest nation in the world and probably have the fattest animals in the world as well because we eat and consume massive qauntities of PROCESSED foods and have for the most part forgotten how to eat raw, fresh, wild, real food... so we have likewise forgotten that nature has provided foods for us that Purina cannot produce for us.... Purina/ ANY and ALL MAJOR corporations who also produce dog foods, are NOT concerned with the well being of our pets! they are NOT concerned with that.. its NOT their agenda for creating foods for our pets. Their PROFIT margins and bottom lines are their agenda and if they could get away with filling those bags with sawdust? and market it as the most nutritious diet for your dog? YOU can BET your last dollar they would....
so why would you trust them at all for anything related to the well being of your family member? I just met a guy whose dog died last year from a poisoned can of Alpo dog food.... the food was tainted and poisoned and was called off the shelves in a recall and when he wrote to them with regards to the death of his dog.... do you think they offered to pay the vet bill for him because the dog died as a result of that tainted can of food that had been recalled? NO... they did not... they did not give him the time of day and the food was recalled and verified as being tainted with a poison... He has to seek out legal council and an attorney to sue them in court... it happens every day of every year! our pets die from tainted, poisoned, recalled, sub standard processed dog foods. Do dogs die of raw food? sure I am sure they do.... for some rare case of some tainted HUMAN grade food that would have also and probably did kill some humans. Our food is also handled by people and its processes on some levels in processing plants around the world and country. We too die of salmonella poisoning or E coli, or others.... hence the reasons to buy foods that are barely processes and small farms and or co op's and places where the food is minimally processed if we can.
My belief is that raw food, minimally processed and handled with the best care you can provide is the best food you can feed yourself and your pets... the discussion is not intended to direct you one way or the other, but to provide 'food' for thought and to encourage you if you are a skeptic like I am to put your health in your own hands and put the health of your animals in the foods that you know are real.... you buy it for you and you buy it for them. Mine eat what we eat... if I were to eat tripe? which I dont... but I do feed it to my dogs but I bought it from the grocery store in the meat section where I buy my own meat. I feed them the chicken I eat, I feed them the lamb that I eat and the beef and the turkey and the fish etc... I buy rabbit for them and I have a raw food source that I buy from which is a dog food co-op and we buy from local range fed beef, lamb, buffalo, and local raisers of rabbit and sardines and everything else we get. its not cheap but its real and we know from where it was raised and came.
its up to you however you want to raise and or feed your dogs, cats, yourself.
No one is here to judge you for what you choose or do not choose. its all personal and its all up to you.
If you want to feed your dog beneful? Purina Pro Plan, Diamond, Old Roy... its up to you....
 
a intense and graphic video produced by a Veterinarian whose life has been changed by her investigations into what really goes into MOST of the dog foods out there.... she is not alone, there are dozens of outspoken advocates of Raw and natural diets who are Veterinarians and animal practitioners who advocate taking matters into your own hands.... however you do it, but do it because you KNOW whats in the food that goes into your dog... it always your call and you can agree to disagree and I will agree to disagree with you! :) No harm no foul... I have and others have just found it makes us feel better and our dogs feel better to eat what we have made sure is real food for them. I have been feeding raw since the 1990's... and we fed our dogs raw food back in the 70's too, because my parents felt then it was better than Purina dog chow. SO perhaps I just come from a long line of skeptics! :gun:

 
Denisov: I'm pretty sure you didn't read my last post, since I wrote that only one of those studies weren't independent.
Now after reading the article in the link you provided, I can't help to notice the link at the end of that article offering the following: ''For holistic nutrition and veterinary practice, visit www.vancouveranimalwellness.com ''
Don't tell me the writers ( Michael Goldberg) have no interest in promoting raw food diets when one of them work at a clinic offering ''holistic nutrition'' .
Also, nothing in the world could make me feed grocery dog food to Maia, I know what's in it and there's just no way. I only feed Hollistic Select and will switch to Orijen when Maia will be adult. I know all about the commercial pet food way to get rid of leftover from human food production and I don't like it either. That's why we should always look at what's in it and do some research. As you can see, I'm very anal about studies and research...lol
And don't worry, I love a good discussion, as long as both sides respect each other point of view there's no harm done :)

DV: don't worry, I never gives her leftover of junk food or spicy stuff, just plain and boring boiled chicken or grilled fish on the BBQ (yes, I use the BBQ in winter, you just have to preheat the BBQ a bit longer to melt the snow...LOL)
 
Dream:
I feed some kibble too.. and I opted for Orijen and Acana but I have decided that I do not trust the Canadian 'FDA" there either, because I did some research online about them and found they too have NO legislation that protects dogs/pets... as the Video pointed out... you can put shoe leather and engine oil in to a batch of sawdust and you can have it nutritionally tested to have the basic requirements that the AAFCO has established for testing dog food. They do not test for WHAT IS IN IT, only the final products values for nutritional values of protein, fat and carbohydrates.... which is easy to fool with clearly as was pointed out in this video.
I have taken a look at some other dog food companies that are smaller still and have found that Susan Thixton recommends a 'list' of foods she would feed her dogs if she did not feed raw. I see that Honest Kitchen was on that list... I also have used a food called "Timberwolf" and its not commercially produced so its hard to find... and a few others made her list as well.
I think if you are feeding Orijen or Acana your dogs are fine and so are mine, but I still want to be comfortable with whatever I choose, myself... not just 'satisfied' with the product but comfortable with it too.
They are mine and I take their nutrition as seriously as I do my own... I own and operate a Yoga studio and I am obsessively concerned with health and nutrition and I come by it honestly. My sister is the CEO of New Chapter Vitamin companies Canadian division... we are alternative health conscious 'food snobs'... so perhaps we take it further than most of you would care too! but its in our genes and in our blood! :)
 
Posted today by this OP:
but I am never going to feed my dogs anything less than what nature intended for them to eat.
in the past couple years I will admit that I have strayed from my 'commitment' and I have compromised a bit now and again and tried to fed foods like Taste of the Wild for a while, Timberwolf, Honest Kitchen, Acana/Orijen and the latter I found the best of the 'kibbled' foods available... Timberwolf and Orijen would be my choice IF I were to feed Kibble again... but after much, much research and soul searching I wont feed them anything but raw anymore...
Read more: http://www.doberman-chat.com/community/index.php?threads/advice-on-dog-food-please.14457/#ixzz1z27lJ6wt

I bring this up as I read this thread where basically she calls everyone who does not feed raw an idiot and that we do not care about our dogs.......This thread was started by in 2010 - then during that time after posting this she comes on and says she strayed and compromised a bit and tried TOW,Timberwolf, Honest Kitchn and Acana/Orijen which is a whole lot of straying while leading us to beli she actually fed ONLY raw and is a vegetarian herself.

What concerns me is new people read this stuff and believe it then go out and act on it. I believe if you give advice on the internet it should be correct and accurate and that you don't "STRAY" and say one thing while doing another.

This is not the first time this has happened with this OP. There are several threads where she has been asked to answer stuff she has posted as gospel and she has refused to respond.

Look at the Excellent breeder thread where she states wait to 6 years of age to breed a dog. I asked if this was her plan for breeding since she recommends it to us and she left the thread and has not returned.

She states she has titled dogs equal to me and yet in the Amer/Euro thread she ask how to find out about the BH which is the basic obedience title before starting Schutzhund.

I don't know about you but the credibility of this OP leaves me shaking my head.
 
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