Canine von Willebrand's Disease

[DobieLvr]

Faber you are more accepting of faults than I am... Why should I worry about how "bad" my dog has this problem, is he going to bleed to death? Why should I have to test after the breeder has tested? Why should I worry about how much hip dysplasia my dog has? Why should I worry about the dog dropping from a heart attack or as my GSP -suffering from Epilepsy - why shouldn't I - as a pet owner, have the right to expect a healthy dog? It is after all - what I paid for. Not a life time of Vet bills...

 

[Faber]

or....we could just not breed.....
the affected and carriers of this disease posses other qualities needed in the gene pool to breed as healthy a dog as we can....

 

[Faber]

Faber you are more accepting of faults than I am... Why should I worry about how "bad" my dog has this problem, is he going to bleed to death? Why should I have to test after the breeder has tested? Why should I worry about how much hip dysplasia my dog has? Why should I worry about the dog dropping from a heart attack or as my GSP -suffering from Epilepsy - why shouldn't I - as a pet owner, have the right to expect a healthy dog? It is after all - what I paid for. Not a life time of Vet bills...

I'm not accepting of some faults at all, I just realize there is always bad with good, and prefer to take the lessor of the bad.

It sounds like your issue is with your breeder, and it also sounds like your concern (via some of the problems you just listed) is with more serious problems.

If you can find a breeder that only breeds clear to clear, and has all the other qualities you want.....I say go for it!

I'll take a dog with a disease unlikely, or statistaclly not likely to affect him at all (carrier)....whoes parents lived to have a longevity award.

 

[Silent]

By the same token humans as a species have numerous medical problems.... do we wipe out our selves?

 

[Faber]

By the same token humans as a species have numerous medical problems.... do we wipe out our selves?

I was about to make a similar comment....it would be impossible even thru selective breeding to illiminate issues in ourselves without raising others.

Your gonna inherit good and bad....so do you want to never suffer from allergies but have a terminal heart condition?

-I'll take allergies....

 

[DobieLvr]

Do you know the #1 killer of all dogs in the US? The number #2 killer??

Cancer is number 1 followed closely by bloat... and they are starting to find connects to genetics for bloat... I have concerns with all health problems because it affects more than just the breeder... but the dogs and their owners.

 

[DobieLvr]

Silent... LOL Don't get me started on people breeding... because I would have to say yes - we should be limited to breeding... lol

 

[DobieLvr]

I

-I'll take allergies....

vwd - I don't think I would consider it - in it's worse form - an allergy.

 

[Silent]

LOL I tend to agree but then most would take that personal!

Silent... LOL Don't get me started on people breeding... because I would have to say yes - we should be limited to breeding... lol

 

[Faber]

Do you know the #1 killer of all dogs in the US? The number #2 killer??

Cancer is number 1 followed closely by bloat... and they are starting to find connects to genetics for bloat... I have concerns with all health problems because it affects more than just the breeder... but the dogs and their owners.

I'm not mad at ya....you want whats best for our animals....you can't get mad about that....and you want responsibility from the people whom breed them....I just don't think this paticular issue is a sign of irresbonsible breeding if you take the time to read even 1 article.

There's no magic wands....I'd look for an issue that seriously does effect us (backed by statistics), that could realistically be breed out....and is being ignored by some....and fight that.

 

[Panama]

Faber you are more accepting of faults than I am... Why should I worry about how "bad" my dog has this problem, is he going to bleed to death? Why should I have to test after the breeder has tested? Why should I worry about how much hip dysplasia my dog has? Why should I worry about the dog dropping from a heart attack or as my GSP -suffering from Epilepsy - why shouldn't I - as a pet owner, have the right to expect a healthy dog? It is after all - what I paid for. Not a life time of Vet bills...

One of the main points is to get a dog from a breeder that tests. As someone wanting a dog that comes from nothing both 100% healthy stock, you as the buyer need to find that particular breeder. And if you waiver from that, you will not get what you set out to get.

If anyone gets a Dobe, unaware of any of the health issue our beloved breed is or can be afflicted by and does not deal with a reputable breeder, and only wants to pay (just an example) $400 for a pet pup from a crappy breeder that either doesn't test or does not divuldge the test results because they came back poor, then...who's fault is it. THE BUYER ....for keeping these greeders breeding. This is way so many tell people that have never had a dobe to "do the homework first".

 

[Faber]

well said.....

 

[Faber]

vwd - I don't think I would consider it - in it's worse form - an allergy.

you are adult enuff to realize that was a figure of speach....NOW, that said, if you like- I can do a search on the statistacal number of dogs that die a year from allergies compared to the number that die from vwd.
Wanna give that a shot?

 

[Miller Dobes]

Faber, thanks for taking the time to research Vwd. It is a fault that all us want to bred out but you are right it takes time to breed out and is by far not the major health problem in dobermans. Your statistics are clear.

Thanks,
Becky

 

[Faber]

Sorry guys....

 

[Dobejazz]

Color is such a small thing. Do you know that at one time, Fawn's and Blues were not accepted colors? Breed standards change - all the time and it is usually to reflect what is popular at the time. Not what is best for the breed.

Actually Blues were added to the German standard in 1901 when red was added (in 1900 when the doberman was first accepted as a breed only black was allowed)


Following copied from Wiki
Since 1994 the blue and fawn colors have been banned from breeding by the Dobermann Verein in Germany and under FCI regulations Blue and Fawn are considered disqualifying faults in the international showring.

With all the coat problems and CDA with the dilutes I have to agree with not breeding for them - even though rare fawns and blues are all the rage in the US in the greeder market

 

[DobieLvr]

you are adult enuff to realize that was a figure of speach....NOW, that said, if you like- I can do a search on the statistacal number of dogs that die a year from allergies compared to the number that die from vwd.
Wanna give that a shot?

As a matter of fact I would Faber. Let me know how many dogs die from allergies each year. And let me further explain - I don't want a dog with either, personally...THAT is my point. If you look at the pictures posted under allergy testing - I posted pictures of my GSP that passed away in November... check out those photos and get back to me... that is what bad breeding is. Daily meds for the dog - what a life for the dog. Expenses for the owner and heart break when they die young. Ali was only 9 years old... oh, and she died of cancer, not allergies. I'm glad you have what you are willing to "accept" - personally - I won't. I'm hoping the next Doberman you own not have this disease...like so many that are being produced in the US currently.
I will repeat - IF it was so easy to get rid of vWD - there would not be so many dogs with it... IF you could breed out hip dysplasia - why are there more dogs with it? IF you can BREED out ALL these diseases - why are they still around?? Bad breeding? BYB'ers? I don't think so...

While showing I personally observed a very prominent breeder of GSD's put papers on a dog her husband got from the pound. I personally observed this same woman use a different stud than was stated on the papers...People that show dogs are not always what they claim to be.

Just because they show does not automatically make them "one of the good guys"... there is so much more to it than that - so much more. They go to a few shows - make a few rounds so that they can "say" they are on the up and up - doing breedings for the breed, etc.

It's simply their way to get the "stamp" of approval that the "internet" seems to require. Not a serious endeavor for the breed they profess to love. And they are just the same as any "Greeder" you find... they use these forums to troll for puppy buyers... it's free advertising for them...make "friends" - and sell puppies... it's a game to them Faber. Oh and they are self professed "experts" as well. There is always information on the internet to back any argument....

They slam others on the forums - and again it's to make themselves "look" good...and when the time comes and you are looking for a puppy - they will be right there to help you out. Let me add here - I own pets, I don't show - I have nothing to gain here Faber, nothing...

For those that are into the breed for the breed - for the love of the breed, my most sincere apologies, I did not mean this to reflect on you in any way - but you know of who I speak - we have all seen them at the shows and on these forums.

 

[deladobies]

Well said Jst...Well said!!!

 

[Panama]

I will repeat - IF it was so easy to get rid of vWD - there would not be so many dogs with it... IF you could breed out hip dysplasia - why are there more dogs with it? IF you can BREED out ALL these diseases - why are they still around?? Bad breeding? BYB'ers? I don't think so...

The # of vWD Affected dogs can be significantly reduced and eventually eliminated if and only if EVERY breeder tested and bred away from it.

And although hip dysplasia is supposed to be considered hereditary.... even if you bred OFA Excellent to OFA Excellent, that does not guarantee the entire litter will be OFA Excellent when screened. There are other variables that can affect the outcome of OFA screening (whelping problem, environmental affects, dietary affects), so no breeder can guarantee you that a pup will be OFA Excellent.

Cancers.... no one knows when this will rear it's ugly head. You could have many many generations with no Cancer issues, and then out of nowhere, it can take a dog. Yeah, lines where Cancer seems to be a regular issue, yes they need to rethink their breeding program. Besides, the carcinogens in our environment, some food ingredients... this could play a roll in some cancers as well.

There is no test for Wobblers, but again, if it is prevalent in a particular line...

DCM.... I've seen lines where they've bred a dog who sire or dam died of DCM to female who had a parent die of DCM.... YES, that is just plain stupid.

Even if you were to clone a vWD Clear, OFA Excellent, Cardio normal, Thyroid normal, CERF Clear or normal, no Cancers for 5 generations...there is no guarantee the pup(s) will have the same results on ALL of those.

 

[Miller Dobes]

Does anyone know where we can find a perfect dog? I'm thinking maybe someone can point me in that direction.......lol.........

The fact is if you don't test, you have no idea what your dog carriers or doesn't carry. Even if they are fixed, you OFA so that you don't make the dogs hips worse by exercise, like jumping etc. You do thyroid tests so that you can give the dog meds so he lives longers. You do Vwd so that if your dog is a bleeder, you have meds on hand to save the dog's life if the dog is clinical (which few are) Vwd affected are said to get worse with age and you can't tell without testing. I could go on.....but you get the idea. Now this is my opinion. I'm not saying you have to test. I only control me. Testing your dog is your decision and I'm not putting anyone down for not testing. I'm saying it is a good thing for your own dog and why I do it. It's your dog and your decision.

And for those of you that I have been told I hurt your feelings, I am very sorry. This is not my intent. Dobermans are our passion and we tried to clarify misconceptions. It was my opinion but sometimes if we are very honest with the problems, we learn something so that other people dont go there.......or direct new people in the right direction.


Becky