Nosework Training

[remy]

I started a beginner nosework class with Remy recently! It is a virtual class through Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Thursday starts weeks 5 however we got a bit behind so we’re still working on the end of week 2/beginning of week 3.

We are currently training with birch. It is optional to do a “cocktail” of 3 odors but I haven’t tried that yet. The hides are not paired with food. During the first week we imprinted the odor by feeding around the hide then directly overtop of it. After that I held the switch box, he would put his nose in to sniff, mark and reward, etc…

At this stage the hide (a switch box) starts to be put in slightly hidden spots, rather than hand held or out in the open on the floor like the previous week. We will train like this a bit more before moving the hide into more difficult spots. After that we are supposed to introduce a fan to blow the odor.

I did notice I sometimes mark “yes” too quickly, even before he lifts his head to alert, so that’s something I need to work on! I can see how that’s easy to do since I actually know where the hide is, unlike if we were trialing. I also want to work on him staying with the odor for the alert. He will sometimes head my direction looking for the reward instead of waiting for me to come and reward at the source of odor.

Here are two videos from today. In the first video I marked “yes” too early. I should have waited until his head was lifted and he was looking towards me. In the second video the hide was less hidden. I did a better job with the marking here (and I think his alert was better as well.)

Video 1

Video 2

 

[Ravenbird]

Great work Team Remy! He knows exactly what he's looking for!

FWI, a lot of times when we are running into trouble with something, I've been told go back to one hide, know where it is and MARK when you know they've found it but before they alert. Because even though you want to mark the alert (he has to know that he has to tell you!) what he needs to know beyond a doubt that it's the odor that pays more than anything. I'm only saying my experience with several online teachers, so right now you should 100% listen to your teacher. I guess I'm trying to say you aren't hurting anything learning if you are a little quick. My worst habit was reaching for the treat before the dog found the source. That's a big no-no because then the dog starts watching your body language instead of using his nose.

Looking forward to seeing more in the future!

 

[Rits]

I also want to work on him staying with the odor for the alert.

If you want this, then the first video you marked too late actually .

I do this with a box in the middle of the floor when teaching odor and often go back to this to reinforce it. It's ok if you and him know where it is, you are teaching him to stay on source no matter what until you tell him to move on. Mark the moment his nose goes deep into the box and is at source. Back up, mark again when he puts nose at source. Back up move around him, mark again when he puts/holds nose at source. Then have a cue that the hide is dead and to move on "let's go!" And verbally praise "good boys" for moving away when told. You can do this again in another session or two but reward a second later for holding his nose there. If he struggles slightly where he may remove his nose and look at you like (is this it? Where's the treats?) make sure to not look at him or mark or anything until that nose goes back in, then mark immediately for nose on source. The next time wait a split second longer for nose on source and mark. Once you make some progress with nose held on source for a few seconds longer, "let's go!" Try not to push for too long or you may get frustration and head whipping. Where they go, "Is this it? How about this? This?" Lol.

The above is how I was taught to train Ripley to freeze with her nose held on or as close to source as possible. Obviously at higher levels they can't always reach the source so for her she would have nose high in the air, possible standing up on her hind feet and freeze with her nose as close as she can get.

He's loving it for sure!!! We are trying to get back into nosework class with Ripley! I miss it so much.

 

[remy]

If you want this, then the first video you marked too late actually .

I do this with a box in the middle of the floor when teaching odor and often go back to this to reinforce it. It's ok if you and him know where it is, you are teaching him to stay on source no matter what until you tell him to move on. Mark the moment his nose goes deep into the box and is at source. Back up, mark again when he puts nose at source. Back up move around him, mark again when he puts/holds nose at source. Then have a cue that the hide is dead and to move on "let's go!" And verbally praise "good boys" for moving away when told. You can do this again in another session or two but reward a second later for holding his nose there. If he struggles slightly where he may remove his nose and look at you like (is this it? Where's the treats?) make sure to not look at him or mark or anything until that nose goes back in, then mark immediately for nose on source. The next time wait a split second longer for nose on source and mark. Once you make some progress with nose held on source for a few seconds longer, "let's go!" Try not to push for too long or you may get frustration and head whipping. Where they go, "Is this it? How about this? This?" Lol.

The above is how I was taught to train Ripley to freeze with her nose held on or as close to source as possible. Obviously at higher levels they can't always reach the source so for her she would have nose high in the air, possible standing up on her hind feet and freeze with her nose as close as she can get.

He's loving it for sure!!! We are trying to get back into nosework class with Ripley! I miss it so much.

Thank you guys for the advice!

I had to go back and watch some of the videos in the class after you and @Ravenbird said similar things about marking sooner lol. I could have sworn I was supposed to wait until he looked. In some of the videos it seems like the instructor waits a bit longer but in most she marks very soon.

Good thing I recorded these videos or I wouldn’t know I was doing the wrong thing lol. Thankfully we are still very early in training so I’m sure it will be a quick fix!

 

[Ravenbird]

Good thing I recorded these videos or I wouldn’t know I was doing the wrong thing lol.

I can't tell you how much video of my practice training has helped me. Nose work and obedience both, I have watched my body language and timing. Ideally an instructor would be there to call you out immediately but video is "better late than never". Also I watch over & over in slow motion to see when the dog hits the hide, and what my body is doing. This is when in the beginning (and even now sometimes ) I see me reaching for the treat as she's getting close. I also study the dogs body language and learned to pick up the change of behavior and so much more!

 

[remy]

We finally did some scent work practice! We left off somewhere around week 3 or 4 in the course. I didn’t intentionally take such a long break, but I got busy and next thing you know a month has passed… I re-read all of the lessons and practiced them with Remy again.

I am hopefully marking soon enough now! I realized though when I do mark “yes” he pulls his nose out of the hide. Is this something I should be fixing? Or is it fine as long as he is staying near the hide?

I practice in “his” room more than in the living room, and it seems like he does a better job on staying with the hide (while I come to reward) in there. In the living room he turns his body towards me more. I’ll have to take a video next time we search in there to show you. Not really sure why this is?

Unfortunately I didn’t get a video of this, but I was super proud of him! So far in the course all hides have been no higher than nose height. I was curious how he would do with something a little higher, so I put the hide on top of a Cato board that was on his crate. He first went into the crate to search and sniffed all along the edges of the ceiling and floor. He went outside of the crate smelling the side starting towards the middle then the top, he put his paws on top of it and stuck his nose right into the hide! He stayed there with his nose in the hide until I rewarded him.

 

[Rits]

I realized though when I do mark “yes” he pulls his nose out of the hide. Is this something I should be fixing? Or is it fine as long as he is staying near the hide?

Don't worry about it. You can build duration for nose on the hide before you mark at a later time, but if you are just getting started, nose on source for any amount of time gets heavily praised. You want to build a lot of value for it now and reward the speed now. As he's super consistent then you can practice duration before marking for reward.

I would do this in a box in the middle of the room so it's super easy for him to find and easy for you to see his nose on source. I do let mine go back to the hide to get rewarded again so I can teach this.

Initially mark yes, yes, yes, every time his nose is on source. Then the next time, after loading the value up for source, wait a second longer before marking. He will probably nose then look at you expectantly for reward. Don't make eye contact and wait him out. When he goes back for a hair longer, yes.

You could also look into using a duration marker and the word "good" in a lower tone. The yes is great for marking but also creates that head snap due to the repeated use of yes means treat is coming from my person. Sometimes I switch to "goooood" in a lower voice which means to keep working, food is coming to you. My yes usually is a: "break from position, come to the treat."

Then I've trained a move on command telling them that hide is dead, find a new one! They learn they no longer get treats for going back once I say this command and only do for finding a new one.

 

[Ravenbird]

Looks great! Isn't it fun to watch them work out the puzzle like the one on the crate? You are very early days, like @Rits said - now is the time to really reward and acknowledge him finding the hide. Fine tune a little later.

 

[remy]

I wish we had a class locally too because sometimes I wonder if I’m doing things right . I know the foundations are really important so I don’t want to mess it up.

He seems to have the most duration for the hide when it’s hand held. This was something taught in the first week or two of the course. I haven’t put the hide in the middle of the floor for awhile, so I will try that again. An issue I had with that is he will starting offering behaviors like a down (when/if I’m looking for more duration). The instructor teaches more duration by reverse luring. Basically the dog keeps their nose in the hide while you have a treat in an open hand. If they remove their nose, close your hand, only to open it again once their nose is back in the hide. If they keep their nose in for a few seconds they are released to get the treat. This is another thing I need to work on more since he tends to get whiny and impatient for the treat lol. Or will pop his nose in and out of the hide.

I feel like I should work on improving duration before moving to the next step, which is ditching the switch box and just using the odor tin. Thoughts on this? I don’t want to rush things if he’s/we’re not ready.

I do really like the class, but I find some things sort of jump around a little. Just as an example, the next level starts off with a review of the first class. It mentions that to get the dog to stay with the hide, give multiple treats individually to really build the value of being there. (I just read this last night but forgot to try it today lol) This was not something I read in the first course, but I feel like it should have been mentioned? Even if it was a “good to know for later on” type of thing. Another thing was in the first course to get the dog off the hide, it’s taught to say “get it” then toss a treat onto the floor. In the second course it’s taught to say “okay” followed by praise and walking away. I guess maybe that’s just the progression of things? I haven’t started the next level (still have half of the first to do), but I was reading since the first 2 weeks are all review of the first level, so I feel like the concepts should have been the same. Sorry if this reads as ranty haha, just trying to type out my thoughts.

 

[Ravenbird]

I do really like the class, but I find some things sort of jump around a little

Online does have it's drawbacks. If it's all pre-recorded you probably don't have the ability to ask questions? It's also hard for us to tell you what or how to do something, not knowing how you've been learning from you online course! The 3 of us, you, @Rits and me all started with different learning methods, teachers that know the game but have a different way of introducing odor. So what we tell you may not jive with your next lesson, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. You can and will make progress! I can't tell you how much I wish I had live teachers & classes for everything!

 

[Rits]

Another thing was in the first course to get the dog off the hide, it’s taught to say “get it” then toss a treat onto the floor. In the second course it’s taught to say “okay” followed by praise and walking away. I guess maybe that’s just the progression of things?

I'm thinking thats the progression for the level the dog is at. You can't drop treats on the floor when trialing so while it was good to treat toss in practice for the novice dog that was still learning to pull off the hide, once they understand whatever your word you use to move on, you no longer need to toss the treat on the floor. The reward is then finding that next hide to be rewarded again, or walking out of the "ring" and rewarding out there for a good run.